Transcript [00:00] This was beautiful to watch. Constantine [00:02] Kissen destroys Dave Smith on Israel. [00:06] Take a look. [00:07] >> See, you you you see the Gaza Strip as [00:10] the Gaza conversation, but from an [00:12] Israeli perspective, if we zoom out a [00:14] little bit, objectively speaking, Israel [00:17] is a country that is surrounded by [00:20] people who hate them. That's a fact. And [00:23] not only because look, we had this guy, [00:25] >> not only for good reason, also for some [00:27] bad reasons. Uh, well, it's interesting [00:29] you say that because I was going to do a [00:31] slightly more steelman version of this, [00:32] which is we had this guy called Thomas [00:34] Sol. Thomas Small on our show. Not [00:36] Thomas. [00:36] >> Be great if you could get Thomas. I [00:38] think he's like 93. Yeah. [00:39] >> Is he alive, Thomas? I think he's still [00:41] alive. [00:41] >> He is. He's great. So, Thomas Small, [00:44] he's the co-host of the Conflicted [00:45] podcast. He He's a Christian guy who [00:47] spent a lot of time in the Middle East. [00:49] And he said, you know, a lot of people [00:50] talk about Israel being a western [00:52] country and when you do, their actions [00:54] don't make any sense. [00:55] >> Yeah, I think that's a very good point. [00:57] But if you look at them as a Middle [00:59] Eastern country, then their actions make [01:01] perfect sense. So Israel in his [01:04] conception is another country in the [01:05] Middle East. Now if you take that [01:08] perspective, stop applying Western moral [01:10] rules and all this other stuff to them. [01:11] They're basically a country in a region [01:14] where everyone else hates them. And they [01:16] don't just hate them for geopolitical [01:18] and geostrategic reasons. They just hate [01:20] them because they're Jews. A lot of them [01:22] do. That's just a fact, right? uh and [01:25] Francis who has you know him and I talk [01:26] about this all the time. He has [01:27] relatives in the region uh or and his [01:30] family is from the region. It's not it's [01:32] not just Muslims either. It's just there [01:34] are a lot of people in that region that [01:36] do not like Jews. Right? So Israel is [01:39] surrounded by people who hate them who [01:41] repeatedly say that they will wipe them [01:43] off the face of the earth and then try [01:46] to wipe them off the face of the earth [01:48] to the of the face of the earth to the [01:50] very best of their ability. And the only [01:52] reason Israel is still there is it's [01:54] strong enough to resist that. Now, when [01:57] it suffers an atrocity like October 7th, [02:00] it's not unreasonable for the leader of [02:02] Israel in that situation to go, "Well, [02:04] we're actually dealing with an [02:06] existential threat. This is part of a [02:08] bigger thing. This is being funded by [02:10] Iran, and if they could kill us all on [02:12] October 7th, that is exactly what they [02:14] would have done." And that's why people [02:16] make that argument. [02:17] >> Yeah. And I just think the reason why [02:19] the argument isn't persuading a lot of [02:20] people and the reason why this argument [02:22] is kind of losing in the marketplace of [02:24] arguments is because look, even as we [02:27] look back now with all the stuff that's [02:29] that's come out about October 7th and [02:31] there's some real questions about what [02:33] exactly happened um clearly now this is [02:37] kind of weird on the timeline here, but [02:39] Benjamin Netanyahu we now know has been [02:41] war was warned by Egyptian intelligence [02:44] also got warnings it seems like from the [02:47] president of the UAE. This Herets had a [02:49] big piece on this. The New York Times [02:50] then backed it up. Benjamin Netanyahu, I [02:53] think, is threatening to sue Herets over [02:54] this. And it's not exactly clear, but it [02:56] does seem like the timeline kind of laps [02:58] up of like he's getting all of these [03:00] warnings. And this isn't just like [03:01] George W. Bush like one in a million, [03:03] you know, flyers. Oh, Ben Laden [03:05] determined to attack. This is like the [03:06] president of the AEU going like, "No, [03:08] dude. They're planning a thing from Gaza [03:10] that's going to be really, really big." [03:12] Um then on top of this is the same time [03:15] it overlaps with where Netanyahu is [03:16] still sending the head of MSAD to Qatar [03:18] to beg that the funding keep going in to [03:20] to Hamas. Then there is this massive [03:23] security failure on October 7th. So like [03:28] however you want to use this words like [03:29] existential. [03:31] Yes, the people who broke out of Gaza on [03:33] October 7th were trying to kill as many [03:35] people as they could kill. I think [03:36] there's no question about that. The idea [03:38] that like October 7th would have just [03:40] happened again and again and again and [03:41] again, I think is ludicrous. I mean, [03:43] Israel had been existing next to Hamas [03:45] for all of this time. Israel's been [03:47] living next to Palestine since they've [03:48] existed, and they've been dealing with [03:50] Hamas since at least 2005. Uh, they've [03:53] been dealing with it was 2007 [03:54] officially. Anyway, they didn't have to [03:57] do this. It wasn't an existential [03:58] threat. Like, if we don't do this to [04:00] them, we will be completely destroyed. I [04:02] don't think anyone believes that. Well, [04:03] but you're you're you've narrowed it [04:05] back down to Hamas, and I am zooming out [04:08] with you to the position of Israel as a [04:11] country within the region. Israel, let's [04:14] say Israel wasn't full of Jews. It was [04:16] full of, I don't know, bluehead people [04:17] or what, whatever. It doesn't matter. [04:18] And everyone in the region hated [04:20] blue-head people and hated the blue-head [04:23] people stay and had its tensions and [04:25] whatever. And they kept invading the [04:27] blue-had people over and over again, [04:29] every single time they could. And it's [04:31] only because the blue-haired people, I [04:32] mean, it's a bad example. [04:33] >> This isn't right. This isn't the [04:34] history. [04:35] >> Blue-headed people aren't great at [04:37] defending themselves militarily, but [04:39] [laughter] right, but let's said let's [04:40] said that they were. You could see why [04:43] blue-haired people when something like [04:45] October the 7th happens would say, "Oh, [04:49] me." When they said they meant to kill [04:50] us all, they really they really really [04:52] did. Right. [04:52] >> Sure. [04:54] We can't allow [04:55] >> we cannot allow the we have to do and [04:58] this is what actually Israel I think [05:00] should have said better which is we want [05:03] to do in Gaza what the allies achieved [05:06] successfully in World War II which is [05:09] win the war and then win the peace. [05:11] That's what we want. We want to rebuild [05:13] society in that part of the world so [05:15] that the hatreds that animated the [05:17] beginnings of World War II cannot be [05:19] allowed to exist. And that means you're [05:21] not going to be in a place where in Gaza [05:24] they teach you to hate Jews in school. [05:26] That we can't have that because the [05:27] result of that is October the 7th. [05:30] >> Um well I mean I guess I couldn't have [05:32] thought of a better better example of [05:33] using the World War II model to go oh so [05:36] this is what we do now. We just [05:37] completely destroy civilian we have a [05:39] total war against the civilian [05:40] population. I think uh [05:42] >> well essentially that's the World War II [05:43] model. [05:44] >> No that's not what happened in World War [05:45] II. No, no. Germany, as I said before, [05:48] did not have to be bombed into the [05:49] ground. [05:50] >> It didn't. Just like Gaza. [05:52] >> Well, parts of it did, but [05:54] >> but no, it didn't because if Hitler had [05:56] surrendered when it was [05:57] >> Okay, fine. Fine. All right. [05:59] >> So, at that point, the same thing could [06:00] have happened without this. And it's the [06:02] same with Gaza. But Dave, it's the same [06:04] with Gaza. I'm I'm stress testing the [06:06] argument here, right, with you. And you [06:08] know, I'm not having a go at you. It's [06:09] respectful conversation. [06:10] >> No, Sure. Sure. So, it's exactly the [06:12] same with Gaza because you go, "Well, if [06:15] Hamas had handed over the hostages and [06:18] the terrorists who took them and [06:20] surrendered on the first day of this [06:22] war, this war wouldn't be going and Gaza [06:24] would not have been bombed into the [06:25] ground." [06:26] >> Yes. But again, you could just as uh as [06:28] easily go and if Israel hadn't been [06:30] occupying Palestine and if Yeah. Like [06:33] it's it's perhaps possible that people [06:34] could have done things different ways, I [06:36] certainly would have hoped that Hamas [06:37] would have turned over all of the [06:38] hostages or whatever, would have made a [06:40] deal. And in fact, there's actually some [06:41] conflicting reporting about like what [06:43] deals were offered versus what deals [06:44] were taken. Look, the story that Israel [06:48] are these nice Jewish uh communities who [06:51] everybody just hates because they're [06:52] Jewish and everybody just in the your [06:54] bluehaired I didn't say that. [06:56] >> Your blue-haired history is a cartoonish [06:58] version of one side being hated purely [07:00] for existing and then being constantly [07:02] invaded. The real [07:03] >> No, no, Dave. Hold on. We we we conduct [07:05] this discussion by not misrepresenting [07:07] each other and we've done that for two [07:08] hours. But [07:09] >> well, I didn't think I was miserable. [07:10] The blue hair example. [07:11] >> Yeah. Because I I made it very clear [07:13] that Israel, remember when I said Thomas [07:16] Maul, Israel behaves like any other [07:18] Middle Eastern country, which basically [07:20] wants to be dominant in the region and [07:22] will beat up its neighbors if it feels [07:25] in its interest to do so. And the [07:26] hatreds go both ways. I I think they do. [07:28] Sure. So the blue-haired people, I'm not [07:31] saying I mean no country in the Middle [07:33] East is innocent that they're all [07:35] fighting for like every other country. [07:37] They're all fighting for survival, [07:38] whatever. But it's also undeniably the [07:40] case that their neighbors absolute and [07:43] hate them. And it's not the leaders as [07:45] much as it is the population. This is [07:48] why a lot of Muslim countries are [07:50] actually kind of pro- Israel. the [07:52] leaders are, but they are very wary of [07:55] the populace on these issues because the [07:57] populace hates Jews. [07:59] >> Our so our sock puppet governments, we [08:01] bribe them to be friends with Israel, [08:03] but their population 100% of them hate [08:05] it. [08:06] >> We don't No, we don't bribe them. They [08:08] the the the governments of the UAE and [08:10] Saudi Arabia, they're not pro- Israel [08:12] because they have been bribed. They're [08:15] pro-Israel because they perceive it to [08:16] be in the national interest of their [08:17] country, which they're trying to take in [08:19] a different direction. they don't want [08:20] to be involved. [08:21] >> It seems to be a weird splitting hairs. [08:22] I mean, I guess we can we're both just [08:23] arguing over what their motivations are. [08:25] So, but I I would just say that it's [08:26] like look like again um [08:29] >> if you want to say Israel is just [08:31] another country in the Middle East and [08:33] they aggress against their neighbors [08:34] sometimes like sure I I guess I I would [08:37] agree with that. I'm certainly not [08:39] painting any of the other countries in [08:40] the Middle East as being angelic or [08:42] something like that. I just think that [08:44] look Israel you kind of can't remove [08:47] from the project of Israel that it [08:50] really has depended at least since ' 67 [08:52] and before that on western you know [08:54] backing them up like this is a this is a [08:56] project of western power that is [08:58] propping up this country in this part of [09:00] the world and so like look if you want [09:02] to say well look from the Israeli [09:04] perspective uh this is how they feel [09:07] it's like okay that's probably true they [09:10] probably perceive these people circling [09:11] them as a threat from the Palestinian [09:13] perspective, they have a lot of reasons [09:15] to perceive the Israelis as threats. You [09:16] know, I'm looking at this from the [09:18] American perspective and I'm saying this [09:20] is not first of all, I do, as you said, [09:23] I don't look at a Middle Eastern country [09:24] with Middle Eastern values as we all do. [09:26] We look at Middle Eastern countries with [09:28] Western values and we are like outraged [09:30] at the way they fall short of those [09:33] Western values. Um, Israel is explicitly [09:36] claiming that they are a western [09:37] country. even by your own, you know, [09:39] like construct here. They're lying, [09:41] claiming there's something they're not [09:42] in order to get this unique funding and [09:44] this unique relationship. I personally [09:47] think that what Hamas did on October 7th [09:49] is horrific. I would never want my [09:51] government supporting any organization [09:53] who would do something like that. I also [09:54] think Israel's destruction of all of [09:56] Gaza is horrific, and I don't want my [09:57] country supporting that. I'm not the [09:59] blue-haired people or the other people. [10:02] I'm the American over here. [10:03] >> You just don't want to be involved at [10:04] all. [10:05] >> Dave, it's been an absolutely brilliant [10:06] interview. Thank you so much for coming [10:08] on. Final question is always the same. [10:10] What's the one thing we're not talking [10:11] about that we really should be? [10:13] >> H All right. I gave you the last time [10:15] you asked me, I gave you the debt, so [10:16] I'm not it's still a good answer, but [10:18] I'm not going to give you that one. But [10:19] I will say, man, and maybe this will be [10:20] the more controversial one. I think you [10:22] guys have talked quite a bit about this, [10:23] but the big thing is the complete [10:25] demographic change of all of Western [10:27] civilization. It's just kind of [10:29] happening. It's it is it's it's a weird [10:32] kind of like, you know, boiling frog [10:35] thing. I don't even know if that [10:36] experiment actually works, but I know [10:37] it's a good uh thing to bring up. And [10:39] but there is something that like, you [10:41] know, if you had ever told anyone in [10:44] 1965 [10:46] that the London immigration policy and [10:48] the demographic policy was going to be [10:50] what it is like, you know, like they [10:51] would have lost their minds about that. [10:53] But because you did it to them slowly, [10:55] it's just kind of been accepted. I think [10:58] we live at too high a standard of life [11:00] that no one's really going to be [11:01] revolutionary or violent over it. But [11:04] very slowly, the greatest thing that's [11:06] ever happened to humanity, which is [11:08] Western civilization, is like completely [11:10] being erased demographically. I find [11:13] that to be a pretty big deal. I mean, I [11:15] think there's a couple Eastern European [11:17] countries that have like a replacement [11:19] rate, and just about everybody else, [11:20] like the Irish people are going to go [11:22] extinct. I This is like a a a tragedy [11:25] that's hard to put into words. And [11:28] meanwhile, during the rise of like when [11:31] it became clear that all of these [11:33] demographic changes are are taking place [11:35] happened to be during the rise of [11:36] wokeism when no one was allowed to talk [11:38] about any of it. And if you even tried [11:40] to talk about it, it it was only the [11:42] people who said, "All right, screw it. [11:44] I'll be alt-right. I'll be an alt-right [11:46] Nazi." Only those people were allowed to [11:48] talk about the issue. And every other [11:50] reasonable person just got shamed as a [11:52] Nazi. if you ever even brought it up, if [11:54] you ever even went like, "Hey, is this a [11:56] good idea? This seems like a big [11:58] change." [12:00] Well, I think that's going to shape a [12:01] lot of our politics going forward. It's [12:03] interesting you say that because to me [12:05] that's a very European concern whereas [12:08] the United States um from my [12:11] understanding as an outsider and correct [12:13] me if I'm wrong [12:15] has always been a country that didn't [12:17] have a rigid demographic profile that is [12:21] kind of being eroded but [12:22] >> we were always much more fluid that's [12:24] for sure well look I mean America I [12:26] think unlike European countries where [12:28] European nations are kind of true [12:30] nations in the traditional sense of the [12:32] word like they're a people, you know, [12:34] there's the Irish are a people. Like you [12:35] said before, you've talked about this [12:37] like it's not just that like [12:39] >> British are racist and that's why if [12:41] you're born in Saudi Arabia, you can [12:43] never really be Brit. It's like you're [12:45] just not this it means this group of [12:48] people and you're not one of this group [12:49] of people. Italians, Irish, like all now [12:51] America has the United States of America [12:54] has had demographic upheaval its entire [12:57] history and it's always had like a [12:59] radically open definition of what it is [13:01] to be an American. And you know, I think [13:02] sometimes when people look back and if [13:04] they see the language of like what is it [13:06] in the the initial like 1801 immigration [13:10] statute, you know, where it said like [13:11] all white men, all European white men of [13:13] good standing can come to America. And [13:16] people today might look at that, Daryl [13:18] Cooper makes this point a lot. People [13:19] today look at that like it's [13:20] restrictionist. You know, they see it [13:21] today through the modern woke lens and [13:23] go, "Oh, so just white Europeans." You [13:25] don't understand how radically open that [13:27] was for the time. It's like when people [13:29] read quotes of Abraham Lincoln being [13:31] racist and they think he was a racist [13:33] and you're like, "No, dude. For the time [13:35] that was like the most progressive thing [13:36] where he was like, look, I'm not saying [13:38] black people are equal, but like they [13:40] should have some rights." You're like, [13:41] "No, that was cool." At the time that [13:42] was really, really cool. So America, we [13:45] had massive waves of immigration. We had [13:47] massive demographic change from blacks [13:49] in the south moving up to the north. [13:51] We've always been reinventing who we [13:53] are. However, [13:55] who we are was always kind of like 90% [13:58] European white, [clears throat] 9% black [14:01] heritage of slaves, 1% other. So even [14:05] though the definition of American [14:07] identity was not as clearly rigid or [14:09] defined as British or Irish or something [14:11] like that, it wasn't nothing. And now [14:15] that has just been, you know, kind of [14:18] like now in one generation, we've [14:20] transferred that from being what we [14:21] always were our entire history to being [14:24] completely different demographically. [14:26] So, it's not like I guess it's not as [14:28] clear as like, oh, the Irish are going [14:30] extinct, but there is something I think [14:33] radically transformational going on. [14:35] Tremendous job by Constantine. And Dave [14:38] Smith is the ultimate pick me Jew. [14:40] Somebody who Yeah. Uh, you know, pick [14:43] me. I'm pro Palestine. Pick me. I'm not [14:46] those pesky Jews in Israel who happen to [14:49] want to defend themselves. I'm not a [14:51] right-winger. You know, I'm a good one. [14:53] Right? He is a capo, somebody who is [14:57] sold out. And I see this very often. [15:00] Some of the biggest pro Palestine [15:02] debaters sadly are Jewish. Norman [15:05] Finkelstein, I think Elon Pap, uh you [15:08] know, obviously Dave Smith. And what [15:10] they don't realize is that as soon as [15:14] they turn on us, they're going to turn [15:16] on every one of us, including Dave
