Transcript [00:00] Today on the Stand With Us podcast. [00:02] >> I think that everyone who was in the [00:04] last government knew that it would be a [00:08] very tough election. [00:09] >> Post October 7th is different for [00:11] everyone in Israel. I think it's [00:12] different for Jews all over the world. A [00:13] lot of people are starting to think [00:15] about what they want the future of [00:16] Israel to look like, what lessons [00:18] [music] we've learned from the attack. [00:20] It was such a horrible but impactful [00:23] election that it will be a very [00:24] important election. [00:28] >> Welcome to the Stand With Us podcast. [00:39] It's been called Israel's most [00:40] consequential election. So, what should [00:42] we expect? Few people can break down [00:44] what's really happening better than [00:46] today's guest. Lahav Harkov is one of [00:48] the sharpest political journalists [00:50] covering Israel and we'll talk about the [00:51] race, what the headlines miss, and what [00:54] it all means for Israel and the Jewish [00:55] world. Welcome to the Stand With Us [00:57] podcast, Lahav. [00:58] >> Thanks for having me on. [00:59] >> So, first of all, a disclaimer for our [01:01] viewers and our listeners, Stand With Us [01:03] is non-politically aligned as [01:05] same with you. [01:06] >> Exactly. [01:07] >> So, we're trying to do this as fairly [01:08] and down the line as possible. So, let's [01:11] get into it. I mentioned that this has [01:13] been called one of Israel's most [01:15] consequential elections. Is it? [01:17] >> Well, they say that every time. [01:20] I do think though that there [01:23] Post October 7th is different for [01:25] everyone in Israel. I think it's [01:26] different for Jews all over the world, [01:27] not just in Israel, but [01:30] I think a lot of people are starting to [01:31] think about what they want the future of [01:33] Israel to look like, what lessons we've [01:35] learned from the attacks and the [01:37] subsequent subsequent war, and that's on [01:39] a lot of people's minds, especially with [01:41] the election happening [01:43] about 3 weeks after the anniversary of [01:45] October 7th. And and I do think, you [01:48] know, it was such a [01:51] horrible but impactful event that [01:55] that it will be a very important [01:57] election. Um [01:58] My caveat is this, though. The after the [02:01] Yom Kippur War, it took two elections [02:04] for change to come. So, maybe the [02:06] consequential election will be the next [02:07] one. [02:08] >> Okay. [02:08] >> know. [02:09] >> We'll keep an eye out. So, we'll get [02:11] into all of the runners and riders and [02:12] all the details, but if you had to [02:14] explain to someone who's never followed [02:16] Israeli elections what it is like in 60 [02:19] seconds, [02:20] I'll give you more or less. [laughter] [02:22] What would you say? [02:23] >> I mean, if you want to make it really [02:25] quick, you could say it's like, you [02:26] know, herding pigs or herding [02:28] uncooperative animals, trying to get [02:30] them all together in one corral, but um [02:33] it it's [02:35] unlike in the US, right? You have a lot [02:37] of different parties, and most of them [02:40] agree about most of the issues, but like [02:43] in a lot of situations, those small [02:46] disagreements take everything over, and [02:48] people get very fixated on them, and it [02:50] becomes very hard for people to [02:52] cooperate and work together. [02:54] >> Okay. So, what's changed most in the [02:56] Israeli electorate since October 7th, [02:58] and how will that impact the vote [03:00] potentially? [03:01] >> So, interestingly, um I think there's [03:03] been a major change in the electorate, [03:05] and yet I don't think it's going to [03:07] impact the election. So, the change is [03:08] this. I think that the whole country [03:11] um has moved to the right, and you know, [03:14] by Israeli standards. [03:16] >> Which pertains to security. [03:17] >> Which pertains to security, exactly. I [03:19] was about to say, on the security [03:20] issues, right? It's not It's not social [03:22] issues or [03:23] religious somewhat. They say there's a [03:24] rise sort of in religious observance in [03:27] Israel, but that's a different issue, [03:28] but they've um the security broadly, on [03:32] Palestinian issue generally, like far [03:34] fewer Israelis supported a two-state [03:35] solution than did 3 years ago or just [03:37] over 3 years ago. Um but all of the [03:41] politicians have adjusted in that way, [03:43] so that there's really only one Zionist [03:48] party. [03:49] Um and by Zionist, I mean like the the [03:52] Jewish Israeli mainstream parties, not [03:54] like the extremes or not the Haredi [03:56] parties, which have their own sort of I [03:58] views on on [04:00] what Israel means to them, let's put it [04:01] that way. [04:02] Um [04:03] so, there's only one Zionist party [04:06] that's probably going to get fewer than [04:08] 10 seats in the Knesset. There's 120 [04:11] seats total. Um that is out there [04:13] proclaiming support for a two-state [04:15] solution. Others sort of say, "Yeah, [04:16] maybe that's the solution down the line, [04:18] but it's not relevant now." Um a lot [04:21] oppose it entirely at this point. And [04:23] so, because the sort of the the Overton [04:27] window has shifted so much, it's not [04:30] necessarily changing the map where [04:32] suddenly, um you know, Likud Prime [04:34] Minister Netanyahu's party is getting a [04:36] huge number of seats because they have [04:39] sort of held this position all along. [04:41] It's just that the parties that were [04:43] once considered centrist are holding [04:44] positions that were once viewed as [04:46] right-wing in Israel. [04:47] >> Okay, so it's a race to the majority of [04:49] the Knesset's 120 seats. But, how [04:51] reliable are the Israeli polls? And what [04:54] should we be looking for as we get [04:55] towards these final polls before the [04:58] election? And are you willing to make a [04:59] prediction? [05:01] >> Okay, so first of all, I don't make [05:02] predictions. [05:03] >> [laughter] [05:03] >> I thought you were going to say that. [05:04] >> yes, I I can very broadly say where I [05:06] think things are going, but you're not [05:08] going to, you know, pin me down on [05:10] something very specific. And the reason [05:12] is this, the polls are reliable in a [05:15] general and broad kind of way. [05:18] I think when you look at polls, and [05:19] especially if you look at polls over [05:20] time, you can see trends. [05:23] Um and that can give you an idea of [05:25] where things are going. Um but, I don't [05:27] think that you can look at a poll in [05:28] Israel and get an answer, "This person's [05:30] going to win." Not usually, unless it's [05:32] like, you know, going to be a like a [05:33] blowout, but that doesn't usually [05:35] happen. [05:36] Um you're there are a lot of parties [05:39] that are running, like literally dozens [05:40] of parties, but usually only about one [05:43] to between 10 to 12 parties will [05:44] actually get into the Knesset cuz you [05:46] have to get at least 3.25% of the vote [05:48] to get in. [05:49] Um [05:51] and so first of all, you have all those [05:53] like quote unquote wasted votes and that [05:56] like affects the polling. Um but also [05:58] you're polling so many different parties [06:00] at the same time. It's just very hard to [06:01] do and the margin of error is larger [06:04] than the electoral threshold. Usually [06:06] the margin of errors on these polls is [06:07] about 4% [06:09] >> Yeah. [06:10] >> So that could be a huge difference of [06:11] whether a party gets over the threshold [06:13] or not, you know? [06:14] Um but it in general in elections in [06:18] Israel, at least in the last 15 years or [06:20] so, you look at them as blocks, right? [06:23] Which [06:25] if we were in a different place, we [06:27] would call it the right-wing and [06:28] left-wing blocks, but I think um a lot [06:31] of it's not ideological and a lot of it [06:33] is yes Bibi and no Bibi. I mean and to [06:35] the extent that basically people will [06:37] say it right out when they present polls [06:38] on the news, the Netanyahu block, the [06:40] anti-Netanyahu block. [06:42] Um and so you the idea of how well each [06:46] block is doing [06:47] is maybe accurate's not the right word, [06:50] but it's good at showing you the trends. [06:52] But again, because of this issue about [06:53] parties that may or may not pass the [06:55] threshold, [06:56] that's like where the polls become [06:58] unreliable. It's very tricky and you [07:00] don't know. [07:01] >> And of course Israeli uh [07:03] governments don't generally go to full [07:04] term. So this is the first election in [07:07] decades that hasn't been called early. [07:09] Why? [07:11] >> Um I think that everyone who was in the [07:14] last government knew that it would be a [07:17] very tough election [07:19] and they didn't see a benefit in leaving [07:22] early. [07:23] So actually the Haredi parties, the [07:25] ultra-Orthodox parties, they sort of [07:27] left they sort of took one step outside [07:30] the coalition. They didn't like fully [07:32] leave. Um [07:35] because they were protesting moves to [07:38] that would require more young Haredi men [07:40] to enlist in the IDF. [07:43] Um, but [07:44] they didn't fully do it because they [07:47] realized that there's a [07:48] very anti-Haredi environment now in [07:51] Israel because people want them to have [07:54] the same responsibilities as the broader [07:56] Israeli population to have to serve in [07:58] the IDF. Um, so they assume that they [08:01] won't do as well in an election. The [08:02] same thing with with Netanyahu, like [08:05] in the aftermath of October 7th, there [08:07] were leaked remarks by one of the senior [08:09] cabinet ministers, Bezalel Smotrich, [08:11] saying like like we're toast, we're done [08:12] for, like this is going to fall apart, [08:14] you know. [08:15] And this is going to fall apart and [08:16] everyone's going to vote against us. And [08:19] he he's a very smart person. You might [08:21] not agree with him on things, agree with [08:22] him or not, but Smotrich is very [08:24] intelligent. [08:25] Um, and so is Netanyahu, and I'm sure he [08:27] had the same thought. And so they were [08:29] all kind of hanging on for dear life [08:31] politically. [08:32] >> Okay, so we make it to the end and we [08:33] come to this election. And we'll talk [08:35] about it cuz maybe this government will [08:36] perpetuate. Um, but let's talk about all [08:38] the runners and riders, you know, the [08:39] main parties fighting for the votes and [08:42] some of the more sectarian parties. What [08:45] does the picture broadly look like? [08:48] >> So, as I had said, we have the [08:49] pro-Netanyahu bloc and the [08:51] anti-Netanyahu bloc. The pro-Netanyahu [08:52] bloc are the parties that he sat with um [08:56] since the end of 2022 [08:58] um when the last coalition was formed. [09:01] And it's the right-wing in Israel. [09:04] Again, right-wing usually pertains to [09:05] security, although to some extent [09:08] economically as well. Like, you know, [09:10] they're more free market than the other [09:11] side, but it's mixed, I would say on [09:14] that front. And um also religious [09:17] parties. So, [09:19] um um [09:20] you know, I used to say people used to [09:21] always say, "This is the most right-wing [09:23] government in Israel's history." Right? [09:25] >> This government actually is. This is the [09:27] first time that you had a coalition that [09:29] was entirely made up of parties that [09:30] oppose a two-state solution, which back [09:32] in 2022 meant something. Today [09:36] today that's a lot a lot of more people [09:37] than it used to be. Um [09:39] >> Because people are more [09:40] security-conscious, skeptical about [09:42] peace after October 7th. [09:44] >> Correct. Um so so yes, I would argue [09:47] that was the most right-wing government [09:48] we had in Israel's history, and the [09:49] members of that government are the ones [09:51] who are still the pro-Netanyahu bloc, or [09:53] are thought to be. Um so it includes the [09:55] two Haredi ultra-Orthodox parties. Um it [09:58] includes what's called the Religious [09:59] Zionist Party. Um [10:01] >> [snorts] [10:02] >> Religious Zionism is somewhat comparable [10:05] to modern Orthodox Judaism in their [10:07] observance. Um modern Orthodox would be [10:09] what you'd call it in America, but in [10:11] Israel, there is a strong political [10:14] element to the community. In other [10:16] words, not not everyone who's Religious [10:17] Zionist is like this, but um [10:20] a large segment, the majority of the [10:23] community, let's say, they vote [10:24] right-wing, and they believe very [10:25] strongly [10:27] um in uh Jews' right to Judea and [10:29] Samaria, and to build more homes and [10:31] more communities there. That's like [10:33] their flagship campaign issue. Um and [10:36] their party leader, Bezalel Smotrich, [10:37] was very active on that front in the [10:38] last few years. [10:40] Um and it was sort of like the world [10:42] didn't pay attention while the war in [10:43] Gaza was particularly active, and then [10:45] suddenly they woke up to it in the last [10:47] year or so. Um and it's made a lot of [10:49] news. [10:50] And then you have um [10:52] Otzma Yehudit, which is um Itamar [10:55] Ben-Gvir's party. Um it's a name that [10:58] you might hear a lot in the [10:58] international news. He's like a very um [11:02] >> [snorts] [11:02] >> firebrand populist far-right figure. [11:06] Um he says a lot of things that rub a [11:08] lot of people the wrong way, even people [11:09] who might agree with some of his [11:10] opinions, because he's like one of these [11:12] people who's like, "I'm going to tell [11:13] you like it is. I'm not going to say it [11:14] in pretty words." Um he studied sort of [11:20] in the yeshiva that had been founded by [11:22] uh Rabbi Meir Kahane, um who was banned [11:25] from the Knesset for racism. [11:27] Um he says that he Now that there are [11:30] are laws in Israel basically that you [11:32] can't have an explicitly racist [11:34] platform. You can't deny [11:36] um [11:37] Israel's like right to exist as a Jewish [11:39] and democratic state um and still run [11:41] for Knesset. So he says that he's like [11:43] scaled back some of his views like he's [11:46] he's not as far to the right as Rabbi [11:48] Kahane was. You know, and that's like [11:50] people can Google things he said and [11:52] judge for themselves if they believe him [11:53] or not, but he he stops short of what [11:55] would get him banned from the Knesset. [11:57] >> Got it. And then on the other side we [11:59] have the opposition and of course [12:01] up until a certain point it looked like [12:03] Naftali Bennett was the leader of this [12:05] opposition and in comes Gadi Eisenkot. [12:08] So where are things standing right now? [12:09] >> So now the leading opposition figure as [12:11] you said is Gadi Eisenkot. He's a former [12:13] IDF Chief of Staff um and he's a [12:16] bereaved father. His son died in the war [12:19] in Gaza um and and his nephew did as [12:22] well um only I [clears throat] think [12:24] like a month before his son. And um [12:28] he was Chief of Staff of the IDF. He [12:30] joined Netanyahu's war cabinet shortly [12:33] after October 7th, but left. [12:36] He felt that um saving the hostages [12:39] should be the number one priority in the [12:40] war even if it meant ending the war in [12:43] order to have a deal. And um Prime [12:45] Minister Netanyahu and his cabinet [12:47] overwhelmingly felt differently that [12:49] they had to defeat Hamas uh for Israel's [12:52] security. Um and there's some reporting [12:54] coming out in recent weeks about from [12:56] the protocols of the cabinet and [12:58] injuries with people. Um this is now [13:01] I mean it was an issue at the time in [13:03] Israel, right? While it was happening in [13:04] 2024 more or less. Um but there's been [13:07] some memoirs published recently and some [13:09] news reporting and it's becoming an [13:10] election issue in Israel as well. Again, [13:12] that people are talking about do the [13:14] hostages come first or do winning the [13:15] war come first? Um and so um [13:19] you know, he he's not necessarily [13:21] campaigning on this per se. Like he's [13:23] he's more campaigning on Netanyahu is [13:26] not taking responsibility for October [13:28] 7th and things like that. But the [13:30] the pro-Netanyahu block keeps saying, [13:32] well, if Eisenkot had his way, we [13:34] wouldn't have won the war, right? So, [13:35] that's like becoming a big argument [13:37] here. [13:38] >> And is there anything politically [13:40] between Naftali Bennett and Gadi [13:42] Eisenkot and their respective parties? [13:44] Because of course, Naftali Bennett [13:45] joined forces with Yair Lapid's Yesh [13:47] Atid, didn't he? [13:48] >> Yeah. [13:51] >> [laughter] [13:51] >> Eisenkot, I find to be a little bit of a [13:55] a cipher. And we know how he felt during [13:57] the war because he sat in the war [13:58] cabinet, but he's someone who I have [14:01] found to be very hard to pin down on a [14:02] lot of the other issues. [14:04] He says makes the general statements of [14:06] the anti-Netanyahu block. So, you know, [14:09] they [14:10] think Netanyahu didn't conduct the war [14:11] properly. They think he's responsible [14:13] for the attack happening and not, you [14:15] know, listening to certain things in the [14:16] intelligence. Um, he needs to take [14:18] responsibility and be investigated. Um, [14:21] Haredim need to enlist in the IDF. Um, [14:23] you know, he'd anti-corruption because [14:25] Netanyahu has all these corruption cases [14:26] open against him. But it's it's hard to [14:29] pin him down on more than that. And so, [14:32] you know, Bennett is holds those same [14:33] positions, exactly. But Naftali Bennett [14:36] has a much longer political record. Um, [14:39] which he he actually has been very [14:42] mostly consistent on. Like he's very [14:44] hawkish, for example, in security [14:46] matters. [14:47] Um, he's very much for the free market [14:49] on economic matters, you things like [14:50] that. Um, he hasn't changed those [14:53] positions. One thing he has [14:57] shifted on is that he's like a lot more [14:59] socially liberal because he used to run [15:01] to the right and now he's running to the [15:03] center. And certainly nowadays, when [15:06] again, the the Israeli public has [15:08] shifted to the right on security issues [15:10] post-October 7th, um, [15:13] that you have a whole camp of people who [15:16] remain socially liberal, like that [15:17] hasn't changed, even though they're more [15:19] to the right on security. So, that's [15:21] where he's running. [15:22] >> And when it comes to the electoral math, [15:24] they need each other in order to form a [15:27] government potentially. [15:28] >> Yes, absolutely. And they [15:31] are sort of working together. There was [15:33] a meeting of the heads of the parties of [15:34] the anti-Netanyahu block, um minus the [15:38] Arab parties, which is a different issue [15:39] we can discuss, um where they said like [15:41] they wouldn't attack each other and that [15:43] they would send similar messages. Um and [15:46] only Avigdor Lieberman didn't agree to [15:49] cooperate. He's not really attacking [15:50] them, but he has always been his sort of [15:53] a free agent. Um Avigdor Lieberman is [15:55] someone who um his party, he himself is [16:00] an immigrant from the former Soviet [16:01] Union, um and his party attracts a lot [16:03] of Russian-speaking voters, especially [16:05] the older generation cuz the younger [16:06] generation is very well integrated. Um [16:09] so they'll, you know, vote for whatever, [16:11] you know, they don't need the Russian [16:13] guy. But um Lieberman's been in Israeli [16:15] politics for 30 years. So, he's not just [16:17] the Russian guy. He has certain views [16:19] about um [16:21] you know, Israel and the Palestinians. [16:24] He's considered very hawkish, um but he [16:27] also believes that if there's a future [16:29] Palestinian state or or he's talking now [16:31] more about like some sort of [16:32] confederation where Jordan controls the [16:34] the Palestinian populated areas, he [16:37] would want um certain Israeli Arab towns [16:40] to be part of that Palestinian [16:41] population, which is something that used [16:44] to be more fashionable, fallen out of [16:45] fashion, I would say, but Lieberman [16:47] holds the line. That's that's the [16:48] Lieberman position. [16:50] >> And you've covered multiple election [16:51] cycles. So, talk us through what happens [16:53] on election night and what happens the [16:56] morning after. [16:57] >> So, uh picture yourself an Israeli [17:00] voter, okay? About a month before the [17:02] election you get a postcard in the mail [17:04] that tells you where you need to go to [17:06] vote. Usually it's like a school or a [17:08] community center, like some sort of [17:09] municipal building. When I was a kid in [17:11] the US, we used to vote in the fire [17:12] station. So, I have not voted in a fire [17:15] station in Israel yet. It's schools most [17:17] of the time. [17:18] Um [17:19] and you and there's you go into the [17:21] voting booth and there's a tray, right? [17:24] With a lot of sections and each section [17:26] has a pile of little paper notes that [17:28] has [17:29] um a letter that stands for a specific [17:31] party. And you pick your party, you put [17:34] the paper in an envelope, then you come [17:35] out [17:37] and [snorts] there's a ballot box and [17:38] you drop your envelope in the ballot box [17:39] in front of the ballot committee, which [17:42] is [17:42] some of the people are supposed to be [17:44] neutral and then usually have observers [17:45] from a couple of the parties. Um and [17:48] that's how you vote. [17:49] And then you know, then you have the [17:51] exit polls, you sort of get an idea of [17:53] who might win, but it usually the next [17:56] day or two you get the actual results. [17:58] And of course nobody in the history of [18:00] Israel has actually gotten 61 seats in [18:03] the Knesset, no one party, right? So [18:06] the parties recommend, they make a [18:08] recommendation of who they think should [18:10] be prime minister and whoever gets the [18:12] most recommendations [18:14] gets is the first person to be tasked [18:16] with trying to form a a coalition. [18:19] Now, through all of Israel's history up [18:21] until 2019, that person succeeded in [18:25] getting a majority coalition and was the [18:27] prime minister. [18:28] >> Mhm. [18:28] >> Okay? Starting in 2019, um [18:32] it In 2019, it didn't happen twice, [18:35] okay? So by law then somebody the second [18:39] most votes, the person with the second [18:40] most votes can be tasked with forming a [18:42] coalition. [18:43] Um so we've had all sorts of crazy [18:45] things happen in elections since 2019 um [18:48] and we'll see what happens this time, [18:50] but [18:51] if somebody forms [18:53] a coalition that has a majority of the [18:55] Knesset behind him or her, then that [18:57] person can govern. [18:59] >> And so what we saw previously was that [19:02] even though uh [19:04] that person made the coalition, uh [19:07] another person became prime minister in [19:08] the case of Naftali Bennett. [19:11] >> Yes, that's true. [19:13] >> Meaning you don't have to be the leader [19:14] of the party with the most votes in [19:17] order to lead the [snorts] country. [19:18] >> First of all, in 20 In 2009 already, um [19:23] the second largest party the Netanyahu [19:26] was the leader of the second largest [19:27] party and he became prime minister. Um [19:29] Likud got one vote less than Kadima, [19:32] which was a large centrist party that no [19:34] longer exists. Um but he got the most [19:36] recommendations for prime minister. So [19:38] he was able to form a coalition even [19:40] though he wasn't the head of the largest [19:42] party. But what happened with Naftali [19:44] Bennett in 2021 [19:46] is that [19:48] Yair Lapid got the most recommendations [19:50] or whatever he was able to form this [19:52] coalition, but Bennett was the like one [19:56] right-wing party in a [19:57] center-to-left-leaning coalition and he [19:59] said he conditions joining this [20:01] coalition with him being prime minister. [20:04] Which [20:05] different people react to that [20:06] differently. He says he did it because [20:08] he wanted to make sure he had the power [20:09] to make sure that the the country didn't [20:11] drift too far to the left. And other [20:13] people say he just wanted the power, he [20:15] wanted to be prime minister and he was [20:16] willing to sell out his voters and be [20:17] part of a left-wing government. So, you [20:19] know, again, everyone can see that how [20:20] they will. [20:21] >> So we could wake up on election morning [20:23] and we'll have the same government in [20:25] place in Israel and it could be many [20:27] months before we know who is [20:30] the next government or potentially the [20:33] current government could continue on and [20:35] we see another round of elections? [20:37] >> Right. So in the normal situation after [20:39] an election there's about a 6-week [20:41] process until we have a government. Cuz [20:43] everything in this country is last [20:45] minute and the deadline is 6 weeks. Um [20:47] [gasps] [20:48] but if it doesn't work out, which it [20:51] didn't in most elections since 2019 and [20:54] we've had many, unfortunately. Um you [20:57] know, think this could go on for months [20:59] and as it happens we have what's called [21:01] a caretaker government, right? The [21:02] current government stays in place. [21:04] They're not supposed to make any major [21:06] changes, but technically there's no law [21:08] stopping them. It's more judicial [21:10] precedent. So, they might try to do [21:12] things and then it'll get taken to the [21:14] Supreme Court and we'll see what [21:15] happens. [21:16] >> So, let's talk about this threshold, the [21:17] magical 3.25% that you have to get over. [21:21] Um who are the parties that are hovering [21:23] around that threshold and do their votes [21:25] get wasted if they don't make it over [21:27] the line? [21:27] >> So, the party that's the most like [21:30] closest to the threshold was often going [21:32] over is now starting to go under. Um [21:34] it's called Am Chai Israel, people of [21:37] Israel or your nation of Israel and it's [21:38] led by Ofer Winter who's uh an IDF [21:42] general who sort of became famous for [21:45] um [21:45] speaking up and being more hawkish than [21:48] the other generals and it sort of [21:49] stopped him from getting promoted within [21:51] the IDF. [21:53] Um and he became sort of like a [21:54] right-wing hero figure for a lot of [21:56] people. Um and he started this party. Um [21:59] listeners to this podcast might be more [22:00] familiar with his number two, Yosef [22:02] Haddad, who's uh Christian Israeli Arab. [22:05] >> Also, Fleur Hassan-Nahoum who's I think [22:07] number five. [22:08] >> Yes. So, I'll just Yosef um [22:11] is a like a professional advocate for [22:13] Israel. He goes around the world, argues [22:15] with people about Israel, puts the [22:16] videos online. [22:17] Um [22:18] a lot of times in Arabic, very popular [22:21] social media figure and well-spoken. Um [22:23] Fleur Hassan-Nahoum [22:26] also does a lot of that, not in Arabic, [22:27] in English and in Spanish. And she was [22:30] deputy mayor of Jerusalem. Um and she [22:32] had previously run in Likud primaries. [22:35] Um [22:36] so, they were doing pretty well since [22:39] they announced in August and then toward [22:42] in the beginning of October [22:44] they started dipping below the threshold [22:46] in some polls. Um so, we'll see what [22:48] happens. There's another party [22:51] um led by Yoaz Hendel who was the [22:54] Israel's Communications Minister [22:56] under the Naftali Bennett government. Um [22:59] and he had his own party that he led [23:00] back then, too. And many years ago, he [23:02] was Netanyahu's spokesperson who was [23:05] fired. Um there was a case of sexual [23:08] harassment of an [23:10] an advisor of Bibi's sexually harassed a [23:12] female advisor of Bibi's, and then [23:14] Handel went to the HR and didn't tell [23:16] Bibi about it. And so, Bibi felt he [23:18] didn't trust this person for not telling [23:20] him what happened in the office. So, he [23:22] got fired. [23:24] And [23:26] uh he's like he's a pretty right-wing [23:28] guy, but also very um talks a lot about [23:32] sort of like anti-corruption and also a [23:34] lot about people we need more unity in [23:36] Israel and we need more civil politics. [23:38] That's a lot of his uh the things he [23:40] likes to talk about. But in this [23:41] election specifically, [23:44] um he wants to represent the IDF [23:46] reservists, right? So, they're [23:48] >> He's done himself a lot of reserve duty. [23:50] >> He's done a lot of reserve duty himself [23:51] even though he's uh [23:53] he's aged out, but after age 40, you can [23:55] volunteer. He's volunteered a lot. Um [23:58] and he wants to represent the people, [24:01] you know, like him who served a lot of [24:03] time in in did a lot of you know, fought [24:05] in Gaza, fought in Lebanon, fought in [24:07] Syria. Um [24:09] or Iran even there for for a handful of [24:11] people. [24:12] Um and [24:14] I don't think that he's actually doing [24:16] what he purports to do in the sense that [24:18] like the there's no polling that [24:19] indicates that like reservists are one [24:21] political block. Um but he has tried to [24:24] sort of take up that mantle and take up [24:26] their issues. Um and a big part of that [24:29] again is the the Haredi um [24:31] conscriptionist issue that I had [24:33] mentioned earlier. Um he's also running [24:35] with this guy um Zelika who [24:38] um [24:39] he was like one of the top economists in [24:41] the finance ministry, and then he was on [24:42] TV a lot talking about the economy, and [24:45] he started his own party that was [24:46] supposed to be focused on the economy, [24:47] and then they merged. [24:49] Um [24:50] they have crossed the threshold in a few [24:52] polls, not as many as I'm playing to [24:54] style. Most polls, they don't cross it. [24:57] And then the third party, which shows up [24:59] in polls as getting a significant number [25:01] of votes, but has not crossed the [25:02] threshold in any poll I've seen, is [25:04] called Hatikva Hadit, the Hadit public, [25:07] and they're a moderate Hadit party that [25:09] wants to encourage ultra-Orthodox [25:10] Israelis to to work, or it's the men who [25:13] need to work, the women work in numbers [25:16] commensurate to the general population. [25:18] Um so for the men to go out and work, [25:20] and uh for those who do not study Torah [25:23] full-time to go and join the IDF. [25:25] >> Mhm. [25:26] >> They're interesting people. I don't [25:28] think they're going to get in the [25:28] Knesset, but they have some interesting [25:29] ideas. [25:30] >> And let's talk a bit about the Arab [25:31] parties. [25:33] >> Yes. [25:34] So we have two Arab [25:37] blocks that are running. One is what's [25:39] called the Joint List. They're a block [25:40] of three different Israeli Arab parties. [25:43] Um one is the Communist Party, so they [25:45] actually also have a Jewish candidate [25:46] running. [25:47] Um and they're also they were pro-Assad. [25:51] They've taken all kinds of contra [25:53] positions that have been controversial [25:54] in Israel. [25:56] Um there's one called Ta'al, the Arab [25:59] Movement for Change, which is [26:00] essentially the Ahmed Tibi party. Ahmed [26:02] Tibi was an advisor to Yasser Arafat, [26:05] uh possibly the most famous Arab [26:07] politician in Israel. Um and is just a a [26:10] figure that a lot of Israeli Arabs like. [26:13] Um so he's like sort of has his own his [26:15] own party. [26:16] Um and you can imagine like he as a [26:18] former advisor to Yasser Arafat, the [26:20] kinds of positions he has on, you know, [26:22] the security issues that are important [26:24] to Israel today. Um and the third party [26:26] in that block is Balad, who are like a [26:30] uh Arab nationalist party. [26:33] Um their founder, Azmi Bishara, is a [26:35] fugitive from justice in Israel for um [26:39] giving Hezbollah information in 2006 [26:41] about where their rockets were falling [26:43] inside Israel. Um so he is uh I mean and [26:47] and there have other members of the [26:49] party, other Knesset members in the [26:50] party have had legal troubles uh in that [26:52] vein since then. [26:54] >> Right. And then of course we have Ra'am. [26:56] >> Correct. So Ra'am is what's considered [26:58] to be the more moderate um Arab party in [27:01] Israel. Um you may be surprised to hear [27:04] that they're a party that has a loose [27:06] affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood. [27:08] Which means that they also have a loose [27:10] affiliation with Hamas cuz they're also [27:12] affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood. [27:13] Um they sort of have uh [27:15] a history with similar spiritual [27:17] leaders. Um but the current political [27:20] leader Mansour Abbas um has taken a and [27:24] and this is a a schism like a split that [27:26] happened decades ago already where the [27:28] Ra'am party believe that they should [27:30] take part in the Israeli political [27:32] process. Um something that you know the [27:35] the branch of the party that they split [27:36] from is against taking part in the [27:37] political process and that branch one [27:40] would argue is probably closer to Hamas. [27:42] Anyway, um Mansour Abbas their leader [27:46] has said that they they believe that you [27:48] know they should just do what helps the [27:51] average Israeli Arab um in their [27:54] day-to-day life and be less focused on [27:56] you know resistance etc. Um a lot of [28:00] Israeli voters take issue with the fact [28:01] that in in Arabic for example he's not [28:04] like so you know willing to say that [28:07] Israel is the Jewish state and things [28:09] like that. In Hebrew he'll say things [28:10] that sound like [28:12] almost Zionist and then in Arabic he [28:14] speaks a lot like the other Arab [28:16] politicians. Um and there's concerns [28:18] about that. There's also like uh [28:21] Islamist nonprofit that's affiliated [28:24] with his party that some of that money [28:26] ended up going to Hamas related [28:28] organizations um in Judea and Samaria [28:31] mostly. Um you know and and they say [28:34] we're helping widows, we're helping [28:35] orphans but it's like who's widow, you [28:37] know? [28:38] Um so [28:40] he that party they wanted to show that [28:43] they're so into the [28:45] that they recruited um you have Sa'ar [28:48] Salalovich, who was a Knesset member [28:49] from a centrist Israeli party for a long [28:51] time, and he was the former deputy chief [28:53] of police of all of Israel. [28:56] Um, and he's joined their party, and he [28:57] says he's done it for the sake of [28:59] coexistence. [29:01] Um, you have a lot of party Some of the [29:03] parties that were willing to be in a [29:06] coalition with Ra'am back in 2021, cuz [29:08] he was in the coalition of the Naftali [29:09] Bennett government, um, are now not [29:12] willing to sit with him. [29:14] Um, [29:15] which is one of the things that makes [29:17] the political puzzle so complicated, cuz [29:18] you have a number of parties that don't [29:20] want to sit with the Haredi parties, cuz [29:22] if the Haredi parties are in the [29:23] coalition, then you're not going to be [29:24] able to conscript Haredi men into the [29:26] IDF. They also don't want to sit with [29:29] the Arab parties, because they have very [29:31] strong disagreements on, you know, how [29:33] to fight terrorism and what the state of [29:35] Israel is. [29:37] Um, but they also don't want to sit with [29:39] Netanyahu. [29:40] >> Mhm. [29:41] >> And then the math starts to get very [29:43] complicated. [29:44] >> And sometimes what they say before the [29:46] election changes. [29:47] >> Absolutely. [29:48] >> of what happens afterwards. [29:49] >> And sometimes people say things that are [29:50] like sneaky things, like I will [29:52] recommend this person for prime [29:53] minister. Like, okay, you're going to [29:54] recommend them, but that doesn't mean [29:56] you're disqualifying the other person. [29:58] Sometimes you have to think about the [29:59] nuances of what people are saying. [30:00] >> Reading between the lines. Um, Prime [30:02] Minister Netanyahu, he has been [snorts] [30:04] head of the Likud for 27 years, 18 of [30:07] those years as prime minister. He's out [30:10] seen many presidents and prime ministers [30:13] the world over. He's been there since [30:14] Bill Clinton and onwards, eight [30:16] presidential terms. What's the secret of [30:19] his political success? [30:21] >> For a long time, it was that Israel was [30:24] peaceful and successful, right? We had [30:26] like a nine-year period in which there [30:29] was no war, and the economy was doing [30:32] better than it than ever, you know? And [30:34] and frankly, the Israeli economy is [30:36] doing really well. [30:39] Like, it's it's like a miracle almost [30:41] with all these wars going on, you know, [30:43] how well the our economy is doing. [30:46] Um [30:47] and then there's still cost of living [30:48] issues that are on the agenda in this [30:51] election, however. But that that's part [30:53] of it, you know, and so Israelis felt [30:55] that many Israelis felt he was keeping [30:57] them secure and also [30:59] post the second Intifada, like [31:03] in the early 2000s, you still had a lot [31:05] of people in Israel who saw the Oslo [31:07] process and believed that there could be [31:09] a two-state one day, right? But post the [31:12] second Intifada, which was of course [31:14] this like terrorism campaign of [31:16] Palestinians against Israelis in the [31:17] early 2000s, um you had a lot of people [31:20] who came of age and became new voters [31:23] who said, "Well, these are not people [31:24] who are ever going to make peace with [31:25] us, right?" And and in contrast with [31:28] basically the rest of the world, [31:30] um and it's shifted a little in recent [31:32] years, but up until a few years ago, [31:34] Israelis young Israelis were more [31:36] right-wing [31:37] again, on security issues than older [31:39] Israelis, which was the basically the [31:41] opposite of the rest of the Western [31:42] world. Um [31:45] And it and it was really because of the [31:46] Intifada, it was also because of the [31:47] Gaza disengagement where Israel pulled [31:49] out entirely all the Israeli residents [31:52] from Gaza and all the soldiers from [31:53] Gaza. [31:54] Um and then we started getting rockets [31:56] shot at Israel regularly, right? So [31:58] these are things that like millennials, [32:01] let's say, when they [32:03] became voters, right? Like that those [32:05] were the things they were seeing. Um and [32:07] so those would get someone to lean to [32:09] the right. And and Netanyahu was the [32:11] leader of the right. Um so for many [32:13] years I thought that was a secret. Now [32:15] we're post October 7th, October 7th [32:17] happened on his watch. Um I think that [32:20] he has successfully [32:23] changed the narrative for a lot of [32:25] people where he says, "Look at all of [32:27] our successes in these wars [32:29] and I presided over that." [32:31] And then you have people who put that, [32:34] say, "Okay, [32:35] October 7th was [32:37] like the worst thing that could happen. [32:39] But maybe he didn't get good [32:41] intelligence, maybe he didn't get good [32:42] advice, and look what he did after that, [32:45] right? So that I think that [32:47] I mean, and I know from speaking to [32:48] people that that's how a lot of people [32:50] feel about it. And so they'll still vote [32:51] for him if they voted for him before. [32:54] >> And Netanyahu is of course facing a [32:55] protracted legal battle. [32:57] >> Yes. [32:57] >> So what role could President Herzog play [33:01] in that if he decides to give maybe a [33:04] pardon as uh [33:06] recommended by President Trump. [33:07] >> So the first thing that people need to [33:10] know is that [33:13] there 99% Netanyahu is not going to be [33:15] convicted of bribery. Because before [33:18] Netanyahu was even brought to the stand [33:20] to be questioned, the judges told the [33:22] prosecutors that their bribery case is [33:24] very weak. [33:25] So then after that you have the lesser [33:27] charges of fraud and breach of trust, [33:29] which is this very vague criminal term [33:31] in Israel. Uh a lot of things can be [33:34] punished into there. Um so first of all, [33:36] the people who say Netanyahu is going to [33:37] jail, [33:39] it he's not going to jail. [33:41] Um but that being said, he could be [33:43] prevented from being prime minister if [33:44] he's convicted of these things, but then [33:46] it's only after appeal, and then the [33:48] Supreme Court would also have to convict [33:50] him. So we're years away from anything, [33:53] and he's not a young man. So I [33:56] personally think that he's just going to [33:57] try to wait this out and see where it [33:59] goes. [34:00] Um that being said, right? President [34:03] Trump was pressuring President Herzog of [34:05] Israel to just give Netanyahu a pardon [34:09] so that he is not distracted by the [34:11] case, right? So there's two things. [34:13] First of all, there's not really [34:15] precedent for for something like that [34:18] where in the middle of the trial and [34:20] everything you there would be a pardon. [34:22] Um second of all, Netanyahu's testimony [34:24] is finished, so there's other things [34:26] going on in the trial now. So Netanyahu [34:28] won't be quote unquote distracted by it [34:30] anymore. [34:31] Um so I I I don't think that that's [34:33] going to be like [34:35] a big thing in in his trial anymore. [34:38] >> Do you foresee a Likud post-election [34:41] without Benjamin Netanyahu? [34:44] >> Not post this election. [34:46] But perhaps if Likud doesn't win, then [34:49] the sort of the There's like a real cult [34:51] of personality there, right? [34:54] Um, Likud is a real party with [34:55] institutions and chapters and and a [34:58] board of thousands of people and they [35:00] vote on all kinds of things on their [35:01] platform. They hold real Right, they're [35:04] one of the few parties that holds real [35:05] primaries. Um, [35:08] and so [35:10] and they the voters love Netanyahu. The [35:14] people who vote Likud, I mean, right? In [35:16] the actual ranks, like the upper ranks [35:18] of the party, the Knesset members, the [35:20] institutions, it's it's a little bit [35:21] more mixed, but they realize that he's [35:23] like the vote getter for them. [35:25] Right? Uh, [35:26] but if they lose this election, then [35:28] it's possible that they may say, "Okay, [35:31] the time has come. We need to change." [35:33] I don't think that in I don't think he's [35:35] going to quit. Like I think that he has [35:37] to really be pushed out to go. [35:39] >> Is there a mechanism to do that? [35:41] >> Yes. Yeah, you could call a primary and [35:44] the institutions can Yeah. [35:46] Um, [35:47] and Netanyahu is somebody who believes [35:50] that he is a unique historic figure who [35:52] can lead and protect Israel's security [35:55] more than anyone else he sees on the [35:57] field. [35:58] That That's how I I can say this as [36:00] somebody who's had many hours of [36:02] Netanyahu time in my career. [36:04] He and I have a lot of respect for him [36:06] as someone who I think is is in fact [36:08] brilliant. Like I don't agree with [36:09] everything that comes out of his mouth, [36:10] but I think he is a very intelligent [36:12] person, very sharp and a student, etc. [36:15] But he feels [36:17] that any room he walks into he's the [36:18] smartest person in the room. And that's [36:20] why he's not going to quit. [36:22] >> What role will a state commission of [36:25] inquiry into October 7th play in this [36:28] election. [36:29] >> So a lot of parties are campaigning on [36:31] it and you hear in interviews when the [36:33] candidates are interviewed it comes up [36:35] in almost every interview. So Likud has [36:39] this we haven't even talked about this [36:40] at all that the Likud has this whole [36:42] thing going on with they want judicial [36:43] reform and not only Likud other parties [36:45] to the right also. [36:47] And so and [36:49] commission of inquiry traditionally is [36:53] led by a judge a Supreme Court judge and [36:55] Likud says we don't trust the Supreme [36:57] Court judges and we don't want them [37:00] because they're left-wing and they want [37:02] a more political system of choosing [37:04] judges more similar to the US among [37:06] other things that they want. [37:08] So they want a different one that's sort [37:11] of chosen by the Knesset and the [37:13] opposition rejected that which is why [37:15] we've had no commission. Um [37:18] The truth is Likud could have rammed [37:19] through the more political one they had [37:21] the votes when they at least at first [37:23] when they wanted to do this [37:25] and they didn't because I think they [37:27] don't really want the commission to [37:28] happen that much but either way [37:31] the opposition parties have been running [37:35] saying you know we're on you know maybe [37:37] not day one but very soon after we get [37:39] into government if we get into [37:40] government there's going to be a [37:41] commission of inquiry and it's going to [37:43] investigate why Israel failed to prevent [37:46] October 7th. [37:49] And then you have some of the parties [37:51] that are in the middle who say like [37:53] we're willing to have you know different [37:54] formats of this commission but there [37:56] needs to be some kind of investigation I [37:57] just heard [37:59] a couple hours before I came here to [38:00] talk to you an interview with one of the [38:01] top candidates in Avigdor Lieberman's [38:03] party saying just that that they think [38:06] maybe it shouldn't be a Supreme Court [38:07] justice that you know after the 2006 [38:10] Lebanon war it was actually something [38:11] that was selected by the Knesset and not [38:13] by the Supreme Court and that we should [38:15] copy that model. [38:17] >> I wanted to ask you about how you think [38:19] Israel's international reputation plays [38:22] in this election and also [38:24] what could be different about relations [38:26] between the United States, Europe, and [38:28] other countries if somebody else was at [38:30] the helm. [38:32] >> So, Netanyahu used to run for Knesset [38:35] with these ads where it would show him [38:37] shaking hands with all kinds of world [38:38] leaders. And and he would put these huge [38:40] billboards up in Likud headquarters, [38:42] which is right in the center of Tel [38:43] Aviv. They have like a very tall [38:44] building. It's no longer all Likud. It [38:47] used to all be all Likud. That's a lot [38:48] of different offices. But either way, [38:50] they have these billboards going down [38:51] the whole tower. And it was like [38:54] um it was 2019 or 2020. I don't remember [38:56] exactly cuz there were of course a [38:57] million elections at that time. Yeah, [38:59] where it was like one side of the [39:00] building was him and Trump. And one side [39:02] of the building was him and Modi. And [39:03] one side of the building was him and [39:04] Putin, who had not invaded Ukraine yet. [39:07] And [39:08] um and it was like, you know, Netanyahu [39:10] is I don't remember the exact wording, [39:11] but it was sort of like, you know, he [39:12] was like a world-class leader. [39:14] >> [snorts] [39:15] >> Now you don't have that much, right? Cuz [39:17] the whole world is is mad at us, [39:19] frankly. He could do Trump and Modi, [39:21] though. He does Trump. I don't know how [39:23] much Modi he's done. I haven't seen any [39:24] Modi ads at this point. Um [39:28] So, for Netanyahu, I think that he will, [39:30] if if asked about it, and then the Likud [39:33] campaign, they're going to continue [39:34] talking about how Trump and Bibi are [39:35] besties. [39:36] Um but on the other side of the aisle, [39:39] they of course talk about, you know, how [39:42] there's all these sanctions on Israeli [39:44] figures, sanctions on products from [39:46] Judea and Samaria in several countries [39:47] in Europe, [39:49] um about how in the US below the [39:51] presidential level, there's a [39:53] deterioration in relations, especially [39:55] in the Democratic Party. But also we're [39:57] seeing things happening on the right [39:59] that are concerning for Israel, the [40:00] American right. Um [40:03] So, there, whereas in the past, [40:05] international relations have often been [40:07] like a advantage for Netanyahu, the [40:09] opposition has definitely found an in to [40:11] attack him. [40:12] Um [40:14] It it's a bit It isn't It it a big issue [40:16] for Israelis. I think it's a bigger [40:17] issue than it ever was before because [40:19] Israelis love to travel and now they [40:21] feel it when they travel abroad. You [40:22] know what I mean? Like there's a running [40:24] joke in Israel that like if you go on [40:27] vacation and someone asks where you're [40:28] from, you say you're from Malta, you [40:30] know? [40:30] >> [laughter] [40:31] >> Um because it's like, you know, a small [40:33] enough, random enough country that [40:34] people would be like, "Okay." [40:36] Um but you know, we've seen all these [40:38] things, videos on social media of [40:39] Israelis being shouted down at like [40:41] coffee shops in random places right [40:43] around the world. [40:44] >> Sadly. [40:44] >> Yeah. Sadly, really sadly. And so [40:46] Israelis are really feeling it [40:49] themselves. And so it's becoming more of [40:51] an election issue than it was before. Um [40:54] but I I I can say this as, you know, a [40:56] reporter who's going around trying to [40:58] get a solid answer from every single [41:00] party running in this election. Like [41:01] literally that's a product I'm working [41:03] on right now. That people don't have [41:04] very good answers. [41:06] >> And it doesn't necessarily mean that [41:09] any new prime minister will get a better [41:11] reception internationally. It's [41:12] possible, but we don't know. [41:14] >> Netanyahu is a polarizing figure not [41:16] only in Israel but around right? And [41:18] he's the most famous Israeli basically. [41:20] I mean, I don't know. Maybe Gal Gadot [41:23] beats him. But [41:24] >> [laughter] [41:24] >> you know, I'm not sure. Right, I'm not [41:26] sure. And [41:29] but they just view him as an avatar for [41:31] Israel. Like it wasn't like when Naftali [41:34] Bennett or briefly Yair Lapid were prime [41:36] minister that all of a sudden the BDS [41:38] movement said, "Okay, we're going to [41:39] fold up." Right? Like people who are [41:41] saying from the river to the sea [41:43] and that Israel shouldn't exist or that [41:45] Zionism is racism, they're not going to [41:48] care if it's Bibi Netanyahu or Gadi [41:49] Eizenkot. [41:50] >> Right. Um I wanted to ask you what do [41:52] you think are the biggest issues facing [41:55] the new prime minister in their first [41:57] 100 days? [42:00] >> So [42:02] because you're saying the first 100 [42:03] days, I I do think actually the [42:05] international relations thing is the [42:07] kind of thing where whoever's out there [42:09] can try to to a charm offensive. Not It [42:11] might not work for public opinion [42:13] worldwide, but to try to talk to world [42:15] leaders. Um and to try to say like we're [42:18] going to address some of these issues [42:20] you care about. Um [42:22] because Netanyahu [42:24] at this point is viewed sort of as [42:26] someone who like the international [42:28] leaders and Netanyahu have bad [42:29] [clears throat] blood between them and [42:30] I'm not like blaming it someone on [42:32] either way. But I think maybe if you [42:34] have someone else that at least that [42:35] person can pick up the phone to [42:37] other prime ministers and presidents. [42:39] Um and so I think that is something that [42:42] they would do very quickly. When it [42:43] comes to the wars in Gaza and in [42:46] Lebanon, right? And there's still [42:48] soldiers in Syria as well. I think that [42:50] in the short term maybe not in the first [42:52] 100 days but maybe in the first year [42:54] um they need to figure out how they're [42:56] going to scale back because there's [42:58] still many thousands of Israelis whose [43:00] lives are being disrupted for couple two [43:03] to three months out of the year [43:05] um to go and do reserve duty, right? And [43:07] that's affecting the economy and it's [43:09] affecting the families. Um it's an issue [43:12] that doesn't get spoken about a lot in [43:14] English but is a very big issue in [43:17] Israeli society, I think. Um especially [43:19] with young families. [43:20] >> Mhm. [43:21] >> Um and so that's something that needs to [43:23] be addressed very quickly. Um and Haredi [43:26] conscription [43:28] >> [gasps] [43:28] >> will help address it but it'll take a [43:30] long time. [43:31] And these are families who have been, [43:33] you know, holding this burden for three [43:35] years now. [43:36] >> We are running out of time but I wanted [43:38] to ask you what's the best piece of [43:39] advice you would give to a young [43:41] journalist or a student activist, [43:43] someone who wants to engage in a serious [43:45] way with Israel? [43:47] >> Um first of all, I think you have to not [43:50] be afraid to be confrontational, right? [43:53] Um that's uh I think good advice for any [43:56] journalist, right? You can't be a [43:57] journalist and just be nice all the [43:59] time. You could be polite. [44:00] But you can't be embarrassed or afraid [44:02] to say things that's going to make the [44:04] person in front of you uncomfortable or [44:06] to point out why the person in front of [44:08] you might be wrong or saying something [44:09] false. [44:10] Um and I think that's true for an [44:12] advocate for Israel also because frankly [44:15] the other side can be extremely hostile. [44:18] And so everybody has to you just have to [44:21] be brave ultimately. Um I can tell you [44:23] like for me my natural disposition is [44:25] like to be very polite, to be very [44:27] pleasant and that was something that [44:29] like when I wanted to do this job I had [44:31] to overcome it and be willing to say [44:32] things to people that might be rude or [44:34] might make them uncomfortable. So that's [44:36] my advice for people. [44:38] >> Uh we've covered so much ground in this. [44:40] I really want to appreciate you for your [44:41] analysis and for your time. You're a [44:43] journalist who we respect immensely and [44:46] I should mention that pre-career you [44:48] were a StandWithUs Israel fellow when on [44:50] campus and so we're extremely proud of [44:53] your career trajectory. Uh Lahav, thank [44:55] you so much for being with us. [44:56] >> Thank you. [44:58] >> An engaging discussion with Lahav Harkov [45:00] as we head towards the elections on [45:02] October 27th. Don't forget to subscribe [45:04] to our podcast on YouTube, Apple [45:06] Podcasts and Spotify. You can find out [45:09] where StandWithUs events are happening [45:10] near you by going to [45:12] standwithus.com/events [45:14] and support the work of StandWithUs so [45:15] we keep going strong at [45:17] standwithus.com/donate. [45:19] We'll see you again next time. Shalom [45:21] from Jerusalem.
