Transcript [00:00] just so wild that you have this person [00:03] who grew up in a Nazi home married to [00:05] this Jewish Holocaust survivor. [00:07] >> Once I got the taste of Judaism, it just [00:10] grew. I was born in 1936 in Nuremberg, [00:13] Germany, out of all places. My father [00:16] became a Nazi very, very early on. [00:19] >> Growing up in a home where your father [00:21] is a Nazi [music] himself. What was that [00:23] like? What did he say about Jews? My [00:26] father never said anything about Jews, [00:28] but he was the ruler of our house. He [00:30] was the header of our house. Actually, [00:32] my youngest sister and I, she actually [00:35] prayed for my father not to come home [00:37] from the war. She was so terrified of [00:40] him, right? And then we were thinking of [00:42] killing ourselves actually. [00:44] >> How old were you when you [00:45] >> Well, we probably around six. [00:47] >> Could you tell us the story of how you [00:48] met your husband? [00:49] >> I didn't know anything until [music] [00:51] after I met my husband to be who was a [00:54] Holocaust survivor. His mother of course [00:56] was very [music] against it. She was a [00:58] survivor of Avitz. She was going to kill [01:00] herself. [01:03] How did the daughter of a Nazi, a family [01:06] who respected Hitler, end up not only [01:08] marrying a Jewish man, but converting [01:11] and raising an Orthodox from Jewish [01:13] family. This is Hannah's unbelievable [01:15] tale. This episode is in memory of [01:17] Shiman David Binyak Schlma Msarbasakov [01:20] Moshe and Shandel Basu De. And you'll [01:24] hear more from our friends at Kabad, the [01:27] U's Women's Initiative, Primal Crisps, [01:31] JW, Wales, Deiss, and Lal. This episode [01:34] is co-hosted by Moritsiri, who you will [01:37] hear why she co-hosted it at the end of [01:39] the episode. Here we go. Could you take [01:42] us back what year you were born, what [01:45] country you're born in, and what your [01:46] childhood was like? [01:47] >> Okay. I was born in 1936 [01:50] in Nuremberg, Germany. out of all [01:52] places. I was born in the suburbs. So, [01:55] first in a in an eastern suburb and [01:57] second in the western. So, we moved to [02:00] from one side to the other. Not every [02:02] living directly in in Nerburgg. But, uh [02:06] my my father became a Nazi very very [02:09] early on because he was rebuked by the [02:12] church by the Lutheran church where he [02:15] was going to be a missionary and uh they [02:18] didn't like his choice for a wife. So [02:20] they said either her or us and and he [02:22] chose my mother and he left the church. [02:25] He also left God at the same time and [02:27] then it showed in his life. It showed [02:30] you know throughout his life. So it for [02:33] us it was for us children was very [02:35] difficult. First we started out in in a [02:38] very humble small apartment above a [02:41] convenience store. And I remember my [02:44] parents always gone. We were three [02:47] little girls at that time. was I'm the [02:49] second of three born before the war and [02:52] uh so we were left by ourselves and I I [02:56] remember we needed we were supposed to [02:58] clean up when we were our mother we [03:00] swept up whatever was that problem and [03:02] put them under the rug so she wouldn't [03:03] see [laughter] [03:05] that we didn't really do it but I'm [03:07] wondering now why you know why would why [03:10] would you leave children young children [03:14] one born 35 36 and 38 so we were very [03:18] close in age and we were left on our [03:20] own. At one time my youngest sister [03:23] wanted to uh find her mother. So So we [03:26] walked quite a ways, at least it seemed [03:29] like quite a ways to the bus stop. She [03:31] hopped onto the bus while I was chasing [03:34] a a doll buggy that was running into the [03:37] street that I didn't know what to do. [03:39] She she was in the bus and she left and [03:42] well the bus stopped and let her out [03:44] because she was not accompanied by [03:45] anybody else. But at such a young age [03:49] and she must have been around five or [03:51] little bit less perhaps that we were [03:53] left totally on our own. So I don't know [03:56] what that was all about. But uh then my [03:59] parents uh through the help of of the [04:03] Seammen's company which al was part of [04:05] the war machine and they're still in [04:08] business but they were so my father was [04:11] able to get I guess a loan or something [04:14] to to actually bought bought a house and [04:17] we didn't see it until it was completely [04:19] built and it was totally furnished [04:22] beautifully and it just for us it was [04:26] almost like a castle. at that time [04:28] because we were you know we were kind of [04:31] very minimalistic environment before [04:34] that. So yeah and [04:35] >> your father was was in the Nazi party. [04:38] >> She was in the Nazi party as well. Yes. [04:40] >> Right. And I just want to if it's okay I [04:43] want to say how I met Hannah because you [04:45] have to realize when you're at a PES [04:47] program [04:48] >> there's sometimes well over a thousand [04:50] people. Right. And I really believe [04:53] that. I believe in hashkaha. You know, [04:56] everything's from divine. Everything is [04:58] willed. And like [04:59] >> I certainly do. [04:59] >> I feel like the way we met is so crazy. [05:02] Do you remember? [05:03] >> Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. [05:04] >> So, I'll I'll remind you like the part [05:06] that I remember cuz I don't know if [05:08] you're thinking of the same thing as me, [05:09] but it was the second seder was about to [05:14] start. So it was the sec it was the [05:16] really the first day of PES and we were [05:18] getting ready [05:19] >> to bring in the second night of PES and [05:22] I turned to um actually Khani Judith [05:25] whose home we're in now I said to her [05:27] and to anyone else who was there I said [05:29] you know what all the women are just [05:30] sitting around waiting waiting for [05:32] nothing so let's let's get together and [05:34] talk a little bit before the seder and [05:36] make a little you know comeit or sing [05:38] singing sing along for the women going [05:40] into the seder [05:42] >> and we we didn't have any way to [05:44] advertise iz that it was already [05:45] Yantiff. So I walked around the hallways [05:48] and anytime I saw a woman I was like do [05:50] you want to come? Do you want to come? [05:52] And there wasn't so many people there [05:53] but you. [05:54] >> You were just wandering through the [05:56] hallway with this pretty straw hat and I [06:00] was like [06:01] >> she just looked so like you just looked [06:04] so [06:05] >> there was something about you like you [06:06] had this like glow. I can't explain it. [06:08] The way you just were walking and and I [06:12] didn't even hesitate. I was like, "Oh, [06:14] hi. What's your name?" And you said, [06:16] "Hannah." And I said, "Well, I'm Siri. [06:17] I'm about to start singing with some [06:19] women before the seder. Do you want to [06:20] join?" And you're like, [06:21] >> "Well, I was going to go to a Torah [06:23] class, but this sounds more [06:24] interesting." [laughter] [06:26] And then we went like off to the room [06:28] and it was this intimate group with [06:30] Khani and her daughter Sarah and you and [06:33] I and Shira Lieberman. Yes. [06:36] >> Right. Remember? [06:37] >> And and a few others, my children [06:39] included. And you brought a new level of [06:42] meaning to going into a seder because [06:44] suddenly and I thought I had something [06:46] prepared to say and I was like well [06:48] we've been through so much persecution [06:50] visha amda I'm like let's sing visha [06:52] amda and then [06:54] >> chira had just met you [06:56] >> yes [06:57] >> and she said morti can I interrupt this [06:59] is Hannah can she share a few words and [07:02] I was like of course please and then you [07:04] shared part of your story and all of us [07:07] were just sitting there. You can't [07:10] imagine. We're like, "What? Did you Did [07:13] you just say that you grew up in a Nazi [07:15] home?" Like, "What?" [laughter] And [07:17] you're just this beautiful woman. And [07:18] then we had questions and that's kind of [07:20] how it started and we all kind of made [07:22] this bond over Yantef that has lasted. I [07:26] mean, now we're post Shabuis. We're way [07:27] past that like and we've been in touch [07:29] and you've changed my life in so many [07:32] ways that I'm excited for to see where [07:34] this takes us because I'm I'm waiting [07:36] for it to change more [laughter] because [07:37] I know it will. Amazing. Amazing. So, [07:40] >> yeah. When we talk about your childhood, [07:42] I think there's so much parents, [07:43] mothers, fathers, educators, we all need [07:46] to hear the like the perspective of a of [07:49] a kid, you know. [07:51] >> Yeah. So, actually, I wasn't planning on [07:54] talking at all. That that wasn't part of [07:56] my I was there to learn and to hear [07:58] other people, not for me to talk. But I [08:00] listened to Shira's story how she dated [08:04] 135 men and then stopped dating alto [08:07] together and I afterwards she says I'm [08:10] going to shock you. I'm going to tell [08:11] you an opposite story. [08:13] >> Sharon David Lieberman. [08:15] >> Sharon Lieberman, Dr. Lieberman's wife. [08:17] Yes. Yes. [08:18] >> And I told her just a little bit and she [08:20] wanted to hear more and then she asked [08:22] me to talk to the women there and the [08:24] rest of his sister. [08:25] >> So I'd love to go into that. So again, I [08:27] I we we've heard about, you know, as as [08:30] Jews, like Nazis uh our whole life, but [08:33] from your perspective growing up in in a [08:35] home where your father is a Nazi himself [08:39] and and part of the party, what was that [08:41] like? What did he say about Jews? What [08:43] was your experience? [08:45] >> My father never said anything about [08:47] Jews, but he was the ruler of our house. [08:50] He was he was the Hitler of our house, [08:52] actually. We had to pull off his shoes, [08:55] the shiny black leather boots. We had to [08:58] we had to bring it to him. He was, you [09:01] know, absolute ruler, right? But he [09:05] didn't say anything about Nazism or [09:07] about, you know, he didn't he really [09:10] didn't talk to us to Right. [09:12] >> Did you know what Jews were growing up? [09:14] >> No, I No, I had never met a Jewish [09:17] person. The only thing I knew about Jews [09:19] is the Old Testament [09:21] >> and it I I never it just was something I [09:24] needed to learn because that's what they [09:26] told me. But so I that I didn't know [09:29] anything until after I met my husband to [09:32] be who was a Holocaust survivor [09:35] from Poland [09:37] and Galit actually spoke German and all [09:40] of that. So yeah, so I didn't know even [09:43] in the beginning I didn't know for half [09:45] a year I didn't know that he was Jewish. [09:48] I didn't even know there I wouldn't even [09:49] think of asking him are you Jewish [09:51] because I I didn't know that there were [09:53] Jewish people alive and how wrong I was. [09:57] >> So I don't know whether it was because [09:59] the way I was being treated that I I [10:02] just reverting to myself. I lived in [10:04] story books. I lived in a fantasy world [10:07] and thinking what someday we're going to [10:09] have. And I prayed to Hashem [10:12] to to that I should be able to fly away. [10:16] >> And I actually did eventually fly to [10:18] Detroit. But [laughter] [10:19] >> actually not. [10:21] >> Yes. [clears throat] But I felt I almost [10:23] as a child I felt that I was growing [10:25] wings and I asked my sisters to check my [10:28] [laughter] [10:28] my shoulder blades for feathers. [10:33] But that was that's a child. I mean [10:35] that's that's old. [10:36] >> No. But it's so deep. [10:38] >> It meant to me. Yes. so much. It's not [10:40] just a child. Like I feel like that's [10:42] the purest intention. [10:44] >> I play prayed to Hashem to rescue me and [10:48] I the only way I thought I could go is [10:50] up. [laughter] [10:52] >> There was no way to escape. There was no [10:54] way to to go to the police because we [10:58] were thinking my younger sister and I to [11:00] show our wealths but then we said no [11:02] that we have to expose ourselves and our [11:05] behinds. We didn't want to do that. So [11:07] no. So I don't I doubt if the police [11:10] would have done anything at that time [11:12] because I think they [11:14] >> to show the the bruises that you had [11:15] from your [11:16] >> beings. Yes. Yes. Right. Yes. So no. So [11:19] we didn't. [11:20] >> So my younger sister and I she actually [11:23] prayed for my father not to come home [11:26] from the war. [11:28] She was so terrified of him right that [11:31] we were thinking of of killing [11:34] ourselves. Actually, that's [11:36] >> How old were you when you were [11:38] >> at at laying down on the train track? [11:40] The trains were close by. Then we [11:42] decided, no, that's going to hurt. So, [11:44] we didn't do it. [11:45] >> How old were you when you had that [11:46] thought? [11:47] >> That probably I was probably around six [11:50] and she was around five. [11:52] >> Five and a half, six and a half, seven [11:53] maybe, something like that. Yeah. [11:54] >> So, what what gave you the strength to [11:56] continue on? It sound like you had such [11:58] a brutal childhood [12:01] >> every day and just just praying to [12:05] Hashem and and thinking something will [12:08] change eventually something will have to [12:10] change and eventually it did but slowly [12:13] very slowly because I my parents [12:16] convinced me that I'm way beyond below [12:19] par. I'm not I was not accepted. I was [12:22] not I I did not fit the German mold and [12:25] I still don't. I'm too I I'm not tall [12:28] enough. I'm not built enough. [laughter] [12:34] >> We like you like this. [12:36] >> I have no problem with it now. But at [12:38] that time I I thought I was really [12:40] everything. [12:41] >> But you sound like a Polyiana almost. [12:43] You know the story of Poliana. [12:45] >> Mhm. Yeah. [12:46] >> Where she like had everything, [12:48] >> you know, going against her. [12:49] >> Yes. [12:49] >> And yet she always had this like it [12:51] didn't make sense. She always some like [12:54] there was something in her that helped [12:56] her be positive in [12:58] >> situations. So there was clearly even to [13:00] dream is a luxury. [13:02] >> It was a dream. Yes, it was a dream. But [13:04] it slowly came to fruition. So when I [13:07] lived with that family after we got [13:09] bombed out with a with an extended [13:12] family for a year and a half that made a [13:14] big difference in my life and I I felt [13:16] valued for the first time [13:18] >> and they liked me. They included me. [13:20] They talked to me. they they helped me [13:22] when I needed needed help and encouraged [13:25] me. So that was a big change. But then I [13:28] had to go back to my parents. I really [13:30] didn't even want to go home. [13:32] >> But you know when they came to pick me [13:33] up and I have to say within the one and [13:36] a half years that I was there, my mother [13:38] visited me twice [13:41] in all that time, [13:43] but she couldn't have been far away. [13:46] >> She never Yeah. and my my two sisters [13:49] were in a in a home for not orphan [13:53] children but displaced children because [13:55] they had no place to live. So they lived [13:58] in a in a in a home like that. And one [14:00] day my parents came to pick me up. They [14:03] wanted me with them to visit my sisters. [14:07] And we went on the train and and the [14:11] planes were shooting at the train. So we [14:15] had to get out of the train. My father [14:16] had a white sheet with him and the the [14:20] snowcovered field, you know, gave us a [14:23] cover and we we didn't get shot at and [14:26] then we went back back onto the train. [14:28] So those were those were not easy times. [14:30] Those were [14:30] >> you laid on the snow and covered with [14:33] with a white camouflage. Yes. Cam. [14:35] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. [14:37] >> Yeah. Well, I'm curious what what was [14:39] your experience in your home and just [14:41] the the community that you lived in when [14:42] it came to Adolf Hitler? [14:45] What did what was said about him? How [14:47] did they talk about him? talk. They [14:49] really didn't talk about him except one [14:51] time we saw the reals like the movie [14:54] once in a great while and and he was of [14:56] course he was glorified and you know [14:59] people were screaming Hitler and and you [15:01] know he was so nice to children and dogs [15:05] and you know so everybody thought oh [15:07] yeah he's really a good guy but their [15:10] propaganda was not not all that bad [15:12] except whenever I heard him on the radio [15:14] it was always a screaming not a talking [15:16] a real screaming So I was I I felt fear [15:20] but I was afraid of almost everything [15:22] especially especially of men because my [15:25] father was so [15:25] >> cruel. [15:26] >> So yeah it was not it was not an easy [15:29] time. [15:31] >> Could you could you tell us how the [15:34] story of how you met your husband? [15:36] >> That's right. Yes. I was because of my [15:41] inabilities to to my my parents thought [15:44] that I was handicapped that I couldn't [15:47] use they said I have two left hands and [15:50] I can't do this. They never thought I [15:51] could make a living for myself. So they [15:53] they sent me to school in Nerburgg to [15:55] the school of higher learning. So uh and [15:59] I started taking English and uh almost [16:03] miraculously my stuttering in German [16:06] went away. [16:07] when I spoke English but I sp spoke [16:09] German it was still there [laughter] but [16:13] it gave me an impetus to to study to do [16:16] something that where I can excel where I [16:19] can be as good as others or maybe even a [16:22] little bit better and that was that was [16:24] a that was a big thing for me and I [16:26] enjoyed I enjoyed the studies and I and [16:29] and I so I got better and one time I had [16:32] a little it was part of a play but even [16:35] in German when I was somebody else. I I [16:38] didn't stutter. I was somebody else. I [16:40] was [laughter] [16:41] a princess of some sort. [16:44] Psychologically, you can get really [16:47] damaged. But [16:48] >> okay, so I was in school and then I went [16:51] to a business school after that school [16:54] and also apprenticeship in in uh in a [16:57] stationary store, commercial, in other [16:59] words, learning business at the same [17:01] time. That was very common at the time. [17:04] and I had kind of missed my train and I [17:06] I wasn't in such a rush to get home [17:08] anyhow. There was no reason to rush [17:10] home. There was no no place to go. Only [17:14] one room was was heated and that was the [17:17] the the kitchen and eating area. And [17:21] there was always cluttered with dishes [17:23] and with all kinds of stuff. He could [17:25] even sit down and do homework without [17:28] first cleaning everything up. My mother [17:31] had had had talents but housekeeping and [17:35] cooking was not one of them. So, right. [17:37] So, that that affected it affected me [17:40] big time. I didn't like all that mess [17:41] all the time. I washed handwashed my [17:44] clothes because I didn't want her to m [17:47] mix them up with darks and lights and [17:49] get them all permissioned. [17:52] So, yeah. So, I didn't my my own thing. [17:55] Yeah. Early on. Yeah. Even though I had [17:57] very little, but I wanted to protect [17:58] what I had. So, [17:59] >> makes sense. [18:00] >> Yeah. [18:01] >> I think like listening to this and every [18:05] time you share with me, I learned [18:06] something new. But listening to you [18:08] telling this personal piece of your [18:11] childhood as a mom, like I feel like now [18:14] that thank God I have children of my own [18:17] and it's okay. I I'm not saying that I'm [18:20] like your mother, but I can see that it [18:23] can sometimes be, you know, easy to kind [18:26] of like let things go and, you know, and [18:28] things are messy and it's okay. And but [18:30] then here you're saying like when you [18:32] didn't obviously there was many reasons [18:33] why you didn't want to return home [18:36] whether it was because of the terrible [18:38] way you were treated or just for the [18:41] fact that you wanted a certain safety [18:44] like you wanted your house to be a place [18:46] where you can come home and have the [18:48] space that you really never had [18:50] physically and emotionally. [18:52] >> Exactly. So, they're both and I'm [18:54] thinking like about not not to make [18:56] myself feel guilty, but it's a good [18:58] reminder of just like sometimes all your [19:00] kids want is a cleaned counter [19:04] >> just to come home and have and just, you [19:06] know, the ex those little big things, [19:09] you know, but [19:10] >> it's painful to hear about even I I can [19:12] feel the [19:13] >> I'm sensing it. [19:15] >> But it's not only that. It's also the [19:17] affection and the love. If that's [19:19] missing, that's even more. That's it. [19:21] And not being not being acknowledged, [19:24] not not hearing, not not so I I one time [19:28] worked very very hard, even hand [19:30] scrubbed the floors and because I [19:32] thought I could inspire her, you know, [19:35] [clears throat] to to keep it a little [19:36] bit cleaner. But no, it it didn't it [19:38] didn't do it any any good. So, yeah, she [19:41] says, "Oh, don't work so hard. We don't [19:42] have to do that." So she was just on a [19:45] different page that to me it was [19:47] important. I was embarrassed to have [19:49] somebody come over to such a messy [19:51] place. [19:52] >> But that's why it would once once I met [19:55] Henry [19:56] I wanted to know what how he felt about [20:00] Clint and things and he he was in the US [20:02] Army. I don't know if I gone back to [20:05] >> Yeah. Tell us how you you met him. [20:07] >> Yes. Right. He is right. Yes. and he [20:09] showed me a picture of his uh what are [20:12] they called closets? I don't know who [20:13] they are. Maybe they call them something [20:15] different. Totally totally nicely [20:18] stacked and not a little thing out. Oh [20:21] wow, that's wonderful. However, he did [20:24] that to get passes. [laughter] [20:27] He even polished his shoes. He spit [20:30] shine. He's called spit shine. had the [20:33] the seams of the of of the uh of the [20:35] soles on the see how they were your [20:37] nails. He put little toothpaste to make [20:40] them really super white. He got a pass, [20:43] an extra weekend pass. [laughter] [20:47] He knew how to he knew how to get his [20:49] way and how to get things that a lot of [20:52] people could not. He would able be able [20:55] to rent a car when they were out of [20:57] cars. They found a car for him. He was [21:00] just [21:01] >> Yiddish a Shakup. [21:02] >> Yiddish cup for sure. Yes. Yes. [21:04] >> So what could you Yeah. Could you take [21:05] us to the story of how you met him? [21:08] >> I met him miss but at at the train [21:10] station. Yeah. I was not in a hurry to [21:12] go home and I missed the train. It was [21:14] fine. I just I just had a pretzel. I [21:17] still don't remember. And I was walking [21:19] and uh just just strolling because there [21:22] was no place to go, nothing to do. So I [21:25] I from this peripheral vision I noticed [21:27] somebody walking by but didn't really [21:30] see but I I felt an absolute jolt like [21:33] an electrical shock sort of and I [21:35] thought what was that and I sort of [21:37] looked but then then I didn't however he [21:41] turned around and he asked me whether if [21:44] I live there and do I know where there's [21:46] a coffee shop you know he's not from [21:48] here would I [laughter] so I wanted to [21:51] tell him where he says well but if [21:53] you're waiting for your train. Why don't [21:55] we have coffee together? And that [21:57] started, you know, a conversation and we [22:00] talked for a while. And then um then he [22:03] says, "Well, how far where do you live [22:05] and how far?" And you know, all of that. [22:07] Why don't I I enjoy talking to you. Why [22:10] don't I accompany you home and then I'll [22:12] come back and I'll take my train back to [22:14] where you to where he was. So So yeah. [22:17] So So the it was a very interesting [22:19] interlude to say the least. And he gave [22:22] me his phone number. ever he wanted me [22:24] to call him. But I wasn't ready to do [22:26] that because he first of all it's so out [22:30] of touch of it just felt so way out [22:34] besides that it were two hours away from [22:37] Nerburgg you know why why do that but he [22:40] didn't take no phone answer we had no [22:43] phone so he was not I would have had to [22:46] go to a neighbors and yeah right it was [22:48] a whole different era but anyway so he [22:52] could not have called me because we yeah [22:54] so he show showed up several weeks [22:55] later. He showed up at my parents house. [22:58] I was shocked that he found the place [23:00] because we walked there in the dark. [23:03] [laughter] [23:04] >> When there's a well, there's a way. [23:06] >> Exactly. Yes. And I have no idea why, [23:08] but somehow [23:09] >> I have a feeling I know why. [laughter] [23:11] You're a little charming. [23:13] >> Somehow he thought that I probably the [23:15] first person that ever thought I was [23:17] special. [laughter] [23:18] >> First of many. [23:21] >> Okay, I'll stop. [23:21] >> So, yeah. So, [laughter] right. So I [23:23] couldn't let him in because I didn't [23:24] tell anybody about him. So I told him [23:27] where where I can meet him after [23:28] everybody goes to sleep. So I met him [23:31] and we talked and then you know then we [23:33] arranged some meeting down the road. [23:36] >> At what point did you discover each of [23:38] your very different backgrounds and what [23:40] was that like? [23:43] about a half a year after we've been [23:44] seeing each other not quite that often [23:47] because he was in the service and I was [23:48] working and and there was a distance [23:54] he asked me about my my religion and so [23:57] I said I'm Protestant and he says what [24:00] do you think I am I said well you're [24:03] either Protestant or you or you're [24:04] Catholic he said no I could be a lot of [24:06] other things Baptist Muslim witness [24:09] whatever else and or Jewish Jewish. I [24:12] said, "What do you mean Jewish?" And he [24:14] says, "Well, why couldn't I be Jewish?" [24:16] I said, "Well, there are no Jewish [24:18] people." I I was flabber. I I I didn't [24:22] know what to do with that question. And [24:24] then he says to me, "What do you think [24:26] happened to the Jewish people?" I said, [24:28] "I don't know. They're people of the [24:30] Bible. I don't know what happened." [24:34] And [24:35] >> it's crazy. [24:36] >> I was 17 years old that didn't know that [24:38] they're Jewish people. Then I look at [24:40] little Davidid at 10 years old. He knows [24:43] about [laughter] the Holocaust, the [24:44] Nerburgg trials. And I was I was in La [24:48] La Land. It was [24:49] >> Well, you mentioned that you weren't [24:51] allowed to have newspapers of foreign [24:53] affairs in the house. [24:55] >> No friends and no right. [24:56] >> Exactly. Very little communication with [24:58] the outside world. [24:59] >> No information. Right. And even after I [25:02] met after Henry told me that he's [25:04] Jewish, I wanted to find out. I wanted [25:06] to, you know, read about the Jewish [25:08] people, about history, about anything. [25:10] Nothing in the German library, nothing [25:13] in the school library, and nothing in [25:15] the American library either, which is [25:18] astounding. [25:19] >> And you couldn't ask Siri or Google. [25:22] >> No, [laughter] [25:23] that wasn't an option. [25:24] >> No, there was no Siri and no Siri. [25:29] >> And [laughter] there's [25:30] >> Oh, no. There goes his phone. Okay. [25:31] There's also there's also um I I I know [25:34] you you've you spoken about the fact [25:36] that you looked back and then you [25:38] realized that you had a a vague memory [25:40] of of a train. Could you tell us about [25:42] that memory? [25:43] >> Yes. As a child after we got bombed out, [25:48] it was my job to get milk and got milk [25:50] in a in a tall can. You would carry it [25:52] because that's how it was down at the [25:54] time. And as I came back, I saw trains, [25:58] very slowmoving trains and stopping at [26:00] times, and they're freight trains with [26:03] people in them and tightly together. So [26:06] I was wondering, who are these people? [26:09] And I asked my parents, and they said, [26:10] "They're prisoners of war." And I [26:14] didn't, that was all I knew. And I [26:17] didn't know what what they're doing with [26:18] them and why they're prisoners. They [26:21] were just That's that was the only [26:22] thing. Do you remember like the [26:23] expressions on their faces? [26:25] >> The people? [26:26] >> Yeah. [26:28] >> Yeah. Somewhat. Yes. Somewhat. It like a [26:34] like a painful painful [26:37] >> expression. There were only you could [26:38] only see a few people because the doors [26:40] were maybe there was maybe this wide and [26:44] you could only see a few people kind of [26:46] trying to get some fresh air. [26:48] >> So yeah. [26:50] >> As No. Sorry. But before that, when I [26:54] lived in the in the house after getting [26:56] bombed out of with with the extended [26:59] family, I remember that that uh the [27:03] FaberCastell [27:06] family which which are the producer of [27:09] of exquisite art pens, pens and pencils [27:13] that that that also you can use as [27:15] watercolors and they they were very bene [27:20] They were beneficiaries of of the whole [27:22] town. They would build schools and some [27:24] churches. And one of them was married to [27:27] a Jewish woman. And I I didn't for I [27:31] forgot about that. But there was a lot [27:33] there was a lot of talk and whisper, [27:36] what are they going to do? What are the [27:38] Nazis going to do? Because that's an [27:40] elite family and they they they didn't [27:43] want to upset them either. But then [27:45] there was graffiti on the walls of their [27:47] estate which they called the castle. Uh [27:50] you know yudenvine. Yeah. You know I I [27:55] remember hearing that and uh and [27:58] everybody was was whispering what's [28:01] happening? What's happening? But nobody [28:03] really told me. I just overheard that. [28:06] And eventually [28:08] he divorced her and sent her out of the [28:11] country. So she survived and he [28:13] survived. In normal circumstances, they [28:16] would kill both of them. [28:17] >> Right. [28:17] >> Right. So they they didn't they didn't [28:19] kill them and I don't know what happened [28:21] to her afterwards. [28:23] >> And I bought a book that there's a book [28:24] about the the Faber Castell people. Yes. [28:28] So it this doesn't talk about that, but [28:30] it talks about you know the interactions [28:33] between the different uh dynasties more [28:36] more or less. Yeah. there. [snorts] So, [28:38] >> do you remember the time where Henry [28:41] asked you to marry him? [28:45] >> Yes, I remember exactly. You should [28:48] you should ask me that. [laughter] I was [28:50] in Detroit, Michigan already at the time [28:53] and uh he sort of hinted before and well [28:58] his mother of course was very against [29:00] it. She was a survivor of Avitz. She [29:03] lost her husband and two children. So I [29:06] could not blame her for not wanting to [29:08] be as a daughter-in-law. Right. [29:10] >> But um but there was a confrontation [29:13] between the two of them. And then Henry [29:15] asked me very romantically, [29:18] "Do you want to get married this week or [29:21] next week?" [29:22] >> That was the proposal. [laughter] [29:24] >> And you said [29:25] >> and I said, "Next week, [29:26] >> right?" [29:28] >> And we got married first. She wasn't she [29:31] was going to kill herself. She was so [29:33] she thought she could scare him out of [29:36] marrying me. But then she relented and [29:38] made the marriage the wedding at her [29:40] house. [29:42] >> 12 people. I'm still in touch with two [29:44] of them. [29:45] >> Really beautiful. [29:46] >> After all these years, [laughter] it's [29:47] amazing, right? [29:48] >> Every once in a while, a new food comes [29:51] along and suddenly you start seeing it [29:53] everywhere. I think meat chips are about [29:56] to be that thing. And Primal Crisp has [29:59] already become a staple in the Linger [30:02] home. And these are bags we actually [30:03] keep around. My family eats them, I eat [30:06] them, and they're one of those snacks [30:08] that disappear pretty quickly once a bag [30:11] gets open. And if you haven't tried meat [30:13] chips yet, I will show you how it looks [30:15] and what it's like. [30:23] Smells so good. [30:26] If you haven't tried meat chips yet, [30:28] they crispy, crunchy pieces of real [30:30] meat. It's not jerky. It's a completely [30:32] different snack. Primag is glad kosher. [30:34] Each bag has 30 to 40 g of protein. And [30:37] the ingredient list is incredibly [30:38] simple. Meat, salt, and spices, no [30:41] sugar, no preservatives, no seed oils, [30:44] and no junk. They have first cup [30:46] brisket, fatty second cup brisket, Texas [30:48] heat, barbecue chicken, and schwarma [30:50] chicken. And I really believe in a year [30:52] from now, meat, chips and chicken chips [30:54] are going to be one of those things that [30:56] everyone has in their pantry. In the [30:58] Langer home, they already are. So go to [31:00] primal crisp.com and use the code [31:02] inspire for 15% off your first order. Go [31:06] and get it. If you're looking to lease a [31:09] car, there's a reason why Williss is the [31:11] number one leasing company in the [31:12] tri-state area, according to me. They [31:14] don't just get you into a car. They take [31:16] care of you throughout the entire [31:18] process from helping you find the right [31:20] vehicle and getting you a great deal to [31:22] answering your questions and making the [31:23] entire experience as easy peasy as [31:25] possible. Their team is there for you. [31:27] Give Saul a call at 718871-8715. [31:30] You send them an email inspirewise.com. [31:33] Go to the website [31:33] inspiretise.com/inspire [31:36] or you send them my WhatsApp in the link [31:38] down below. Tell them inspiration for [31:39] the nation sent you. Now you've heard me [31:42] talk about Kabad's Pushka app before. [31:44] So, if you still haven't downloaded it, [31:46] here's my pitch. Just do it. It's [31:48] probably the smartest way to ensure you [31:51] consistently give Saddaka. You download [31:53] it once, you set your reminders, and [31:55] now, wherever you are, at home, at work, [31:57] in Palo Alto, traveling, you'll always [32:00] have a Pushka with you. I was just [32:02] upstate. They didn't have as many [32:04] Pushkas as I'm used to. Well, bada bing, [32:06] bada boom. I had a Pushka right in my [32:08] pocket. And that's the key. We all want [32:09] to give more sedaka, but life gets busy [32:11] and we forget. The app removes that [32:14] excuse. It reminds you, you give in [32:16] seconds. And you know that seducka is [32:18] becoming a consistent part of your life. [32:19] You can start with just a dollar a day. [32:21] And it's not about how much you give [32:22] each time. It's about becoming someone [32:24] who gives every single day. So don't [32:26] just hear me talk about it. Take out [32:28] your phone, download the Kabad Pushka [32:30] app, and help the neediest people in [32:32] Israel get the food and shelter and [32:34] clothes they deserve. Download the app [32:37] at pushkapp.cc/inspo. [32:39] That's pushapp.cc/inspo. cc/inspo. Of [32:42] course, click the link down below. Now, [32:44] back to this week's episode. [32:45] >> So, after you met Henry at this train [32:48] station, you developed this relationship [32:49] with him. Now, you realized that he was [32:53] Jewish and you were actually intrigued [32:55] by that. Instead of being pushed away, [32:57] you no [32:59] >> could believe that there was actually [33:01] Jews. Like, tell me more. [33:02] >> Yeah. Right. Yes. [33:03] >> So, tell us about what happened when you [33:05] started to pursue Judaism. [33:08] >> Yeah. Okay. Before Henry went back to [33:11] the United States, when his service was [33:13] up, he gave me a misa necklace and I [33:16] wore it every single day. And I had [33:19] gotten a job at uh the European Exchange [33:22] Commission in their men's department. [33:24] That's where they put me. And uh it was [33:27] it was very good for me psychologically [33:30] too because uh I I was the best English- [33:33] speakaking person there because I had [33:36] started pretty hard [33:38] >> and I also they they liked my taste. So [33:41] finally somebody asked me what do you [33:43] think of this and I put together [33:46] outfits. I mean the men like with the [33:48] the ties and they they asked what do you [33:50] think? What what what kind of shirt and [33:52] what? So yeah. So, I felt very very good [33:55] about that. [33:56] >> Is that something that you've developed [33:58] over the years? Like that affinity [33:59] toward [34:00] >> I'm sorry. [34:01] >> Is that something that you've used over [34:03] the years and developed that passion of [34:05] yours for [34:06] >> Right. Well, I didn't [34:07] >> color. Right. I didn't even know it yet [34:09] because I had no means of buying these [34:11] things for myself. But I always liked [34:13] colors. I liked what goes together and I [34:16] I I enjoyed putting putting things [34:17] together. So, so and one day somebody [34:20] comes in and asks me if that's a muza. [34:23] The necklace was a muza. And I said, [34:26] "Yes." He says, "How come you don't go [34:28] to synagogue?" And I didn't hear [34:31] synagogue. I thought, he said, [34:32] "Kindergarten." I said, "Why would I [34:35] go?" [laughter] [34:37] I didn't have a hearing problem yet, but [34:39] I didn't expect the word synagogue, I [34:41] guess. Yes. [laughter] [34:42] >> You had a banana in your ear. [34:44] >> That's what my grandmother used to say, [34:46] [laughter] [34:47] >> right? So yes, that then I said, well, [34:49] where is there a synagogue? Because [34:51] after Henry told me, especially after he [34:53] left Germany, I was trying to find out [34:58] the history about the Jewish people, [34:59] what happened, where are they, and all [35:01] of that. But when they told me that [35:03] there's a synagogue, I went the the [35:06] first Friday, I went there and and I [35:08] felt like I belonged. It felt I felt [35:11] like walking into Judith's house. [35:13] [laughter] [35:15] And it's cool that you still remember [35:16] that feeling cuz [35:18] >> Yes. [35:18] >> Now in the year 2026, you have the [35:20] feeling and it [laughter] feels [35:21] something similar. It's [35:22] >> very very special. [35:24] >> So cool that you remember that. [35:25] >> And I remember I went every Friday night [35:28] and I was looking forward to it and and [35:30] and I I read the English of had no idea [35:33] about her at all. [35:35] >> Then I actually wanted to convert and [35:37] Henry said no. Then I went to take [35:39] Hebrew lesson. Henry said no. And me [35:43] being obedient as I was, I went along [35:46] with all of that. So I didn't I didn't [35:48] do what I really would have liked to do. [35:50] >> I think before we could appreciate [35:52] >> Yeah. [35:53] >> what happened when you and Henry came [35:55] together in Detroit, Michigan. [35:57] >> Yeah. Okay. [35:58] >> You know, as let's let's let's go back a [36:01] little bit because I feel like it's [36:02] going to be so much more crystal clear [36:05] to myself and anyone who's listening, [36:08] >> okay? um just like how does a young boy [36:12] who survived the Holocaust [36:14] >> now join the American army you know at [36:16] this point in the story so can you [36:18] >> you know imagine we don't have Henry [36:20] with us today [36:21] >> he's passed and I feel like if imagine [36:24] he was here and he wanted to share his [36:26] story with us [36:28] >> absolutely [36:29] >> what would he share I mean in your words [36:30] not [36:31] >> well Henry well the family lived the way [36:34] Henry was born in Stanislav which is now [36:36] Ivan of Franovsk in the in the Ukraine. [36:40] And uh they lived there for a while. [36:42] When when things got bad, they moved to [36:44] Radom. That's where his mother was from. [36:47] And they lived as Gentiles. [36:50] And Henry's father was fluent in German [36:52] because they it was Galitzia where they [36:54] were from. And he worked for the German [36:57] military fixing trucks for several [37:01] years. Nobody knew except somebody from [37:04] the neighborhood probably turned them [37:06] in. The Poles are very hungry and they [37:09] would get him a pound of sugar or butter [37:11] or something. Somebody turned them in. [37:14] And one Friday night the SS came, wanted [37:16] to arrest Henry's father and he [37:19] resisted. He hung onto the banister. [37:22] They beat him to unconsciousness and he [37:25] died of his wound several days later. [37:27] Then they took his mother to Avitz and [37:30] Henry was left with his two younger [37:32] siblings. [37:34] He they she actually tried to send him [37:37] to to a nephew of hers, but the nephew [37:41] was living in hiding also with a Polish [37:43] woman and he he he couldn't take him [37:46] because he was afraid for his life. Mhm. [37:48] >> So [37:50] he sent them back to their apartment and [37:52] they and then the Nazis caught the two [37:55] younger children and Henry was able to [37:58] run away. Somehow he was fortunate with [38:02] Hashem's help. Then he lingered at the [38:06] train station. Train stations has been [38:08] important thing in our lives and to to [38:12] there's a restaurant. He was trying to [38:13] find some crumbs or some food or [38:15] anything at all to eat. [38:18] And there was a peddler there selling [38:19] things out of a suitcase. And he saw [38:22] Henry and he asked him, "Where do you [38:24] live?" And he said, "Nowhere." He said, [38:25] "I'm going to this little village. Uh [38:28] maybe you can maybe you can go with me." [38:31] Now, I don't know if the guy knew that [38:32] Henry was Jewish or not. I don't know [38:34] that. [38:35] >> He must have assumed. [38:37] >> Cuz why would Polish kid be, you know, [38:40] on their own? So he went to this little [38:43] village called Vesh Nova V, which is not [38:46] even on the map. We went in 1988 to to [38:51] to visit the people that saved him and [38:54] and we had to find a a postman to tell [38:56] us where it's at. But [38:58] >> Wow. [38:59] >> But it was a a brother and a sister in [39:03] their early 20s and they had a one room [39:06] house and a barn. [39:10] Henry slept in the barn and they were in [39:13] the house. Of course, no bathroom, no [39:16] running water. We just This is in rural [39:18] Poland, right? At that time anyway. But [39:21] >> so he lived there for about a year and a [39:24] half. [39:25] >> What? [39:26] >> In in the barn. He slept in the barn at [39:29] night. There was a horse, maybe two [39:32] horses in there, right? That kept it [39:34] warm enough [39:35] >> by himself. [39:36] >> 10 years old. [39:37] >> By himself. Yes. right? Sleeping on a [39:40] straw, no no change of clothing, no [39:43] anything, no bath, nothing. So, right, [39:46] that's those are very difficult [39:49] conditions. [gasps] But at the end of [39:51] the war, there were still groups hunting [39:55] down Jews, the KKKA, and they came to [39:58] the house and they wanted to know who [40:01] Henry was because they knew that that [40:03] they're not a couple. So, he's he's the [40:05] son of a cousin of ours from Warso. and [40:08] they said to them, "We're going to check [40:10] this out and come back." Henry was [40:12] around 12 years old at the time. He knew [40:14] he had to leave. His opportunity came [40:17] when there was a wedding in that five [40:20] house village, right? So, yeah. So, he [40:23] took a horse in a big loaf of bread, [40:26] went to the train station, no papers, no [40:29] money, knew which train went to Haram. [40:33] That's where he had lived last. [40:36] got under the train, rode on the axle of [40:38] the train to Rado, [40:41] found out that his mother survived Avitz [40:45] and they told him she works for Radio [40:48] Free Europe. So she comes back and forth [40:51] in the hope of finding her children [40:55] and he said, "No, I'm not waiting. I'm [40:57] going if she's in Stogart, I'm going to [40:59] Stogart." And he was 12 years old. So [41:04] there was a a soldier from the mandated [41:07] Palestine, a Jewish soldier behind him. [41:09] He says, "I'm going to SKA. I'll take [41:11] him with me." So the soldier goes to the [41:14] right train. And so he asked him, "How [41:17] did you get here?" And he said, "I rode [41:19] under the train." He said, "Well, you do [41:21] the same thing here." Okay. So the [41:23] soldier was sitting in the in the [41:25] compartment and Henry was below under [41:28] under the axle to the train again. And [41:30] at the border crossing, [41:33] the the dogs found him and uh he would [41:36] the guard was ready to arrest him. So [41:40] the soldier sees that hashkah again and [41:44] he goes outside. He happens to have a [41:46] pair of nylon stockings and gives it to [41:49] the guard and the guard lets Henry back [41:51] under. He had something that that the [41:53] other [41:54] >> that was that was something of means. [41:55] Nylon stockings. [41:56] >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Right. How shows the [41:59] times like [42:00] >> Yeah. Right. You now we throw him out. [42:04] [laughter] [42:04] >> You mean like one time used to? Yeah. [42:06] Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. So he got back [42:10] under the train and he made it to [42:11] Stoodgard. By that time his mother had [42:14] heard that he survived and she went to [42:16] Poland and Henry found his uncle. He a [42:20] brother of of his mother also survived [42:23] the war and he found him and and be the [42:27] uncle before he let him into the house [42:29] he deloused him. He was covered with you [42:32] know all kinds of bugs and and yeah vers [42:36] and yeah all kinds of yeah of course of [42:40] course you how could you not when you [42:41] sleep in a barn in in no shower that of [42:44] course the bugs eat eat you and bite [42:46] you. So he cleaned them up and then then [42:50] they lived in Stoodgard, Germany where [42:53] women's American or had a wonderful [42:56] program [42:57] for the kids, different languages. They [43:00] had they they had vocational schooling, [43:03] they had regular school, they had they [43:05] had everything a little bit for [43:06] everything. Henry was more to vocational [43:09] school. He learned how he learned auto [43:11] mechanics and jewelry making [43:14] and he was not so into sec into regular [43:18] sex secular studies kind of. So he [43:21] learned that [43:22] >> and then in 1949 they were brought to [43:26] the states by highest h. Have you heard [43:29] of them? Yeah. Yeah. Hebrew Immigration [43:32] Society I think is what they're called, [43:33] right? Yeah. They're still in existence [43:35] but a little different than they were. [43:38] They took them to Detroit, Michigan. [43:41] Henry's mother got I forgot to tell you. [43:43] Henry's mother got remarried in the camp [43:46] to a Polish survivor. And Henry was she [43:50] didn't tell him before. They were they [43:51] just went away and got married. And she [43:53] says, "This is your new father." Well, [43:55] and he was very upset with that. He did [43:57] not like that at all. He he was still [44:00] mourning his father. And yeah, so so [44:03] >> who you mentioned in to me beforehand [44:07] that Henry had seen the murder of his [44:09] father. He was standing there. Yes. [44:10] Watching him. [44:11] >> Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. That should [44:14] have never left him. [44:15] >> And I'm sure no one ever [44:17] >> he never had the help he needed to get [44:18] over that. I mean, no one can get over [44:20] that. [44:20] >> How can you're right. Yeah. You're [44:21] right. So whatever issues he had, [44:24] >> I know what they where they come from. [44:26] >> Oh, yeah. For sure. But remember you had [44:28] told me, tell us about when Henry wanted [44:30] to go to Palestine. [44:32] >> That that was right around that time. [44:34] Okay. He he was on the on the bus on the [44:37] truck already. He wanted to go Yeah. to [44:40] Palestine. That wasn't Israel yet. Yes. [44:42] And his mother pulled him off the truck. [44:45] Literally pulled him off the truck. You [44:46] are not going. We are going to the [44:48] United States. We're not going to a [44:49] place that has more war. And she didn't [44:52] let him. So yeah. [44:54] >> So I'm curious. [44:55] >> Yeah. After Henry experienced all of [44:57] that, he when he got to America, he [45:00] wanted to join the army. Like how did [45:03] that [45:03] >> not right away? He came to the states [45:06] hardly any money and no English skills. [45:09] Neither did his his parents. So his [45:11] parents uh worked in Ham Tramik, [45:14] Michigan of a Polish Polish speaking [45:17] area. So they worked in medial jobs like [45:20] nursing homes and you know kitchen stuff [45:22] like that. And Henry worked for [45:25] Mendlesson egg company [45:28] Jewish. I don't know whatever he was [45:30] able to do, right? Yes. Just anything to [45:32] make a living. And then he got a job in [45:35] a jewelry manufacturing company. [45:37] >> And he was he was a good jewelry [45:39] designer. He would he he made a custom [45:41] piece for one of the Ford people. Ford [45:44] was very anti-Semitic, but they don't [45:46] always know that someone's Jewish. But [45:48] yeah. Yeah. They wouldn't hire Jewish [45:50] people at that time. Unfortunately, [45:52] there's a lot of Jewish made things that [45:54] people who are anti-Semitic benefit [45:56] from. Right. [45:58] >> Right. That's right. That's that's [45:59] nothing new. Right. It's nothing new. [46:02] Right. [46:02] >> So, he got he got quite good at at [46:05] making jewelry. [46:07] And then he he enlisted in the American [46:11] army. He wasn't even 21 yet. He was 20. [46:14] He wanted to be uh he wanted to be going [46:17] to Korea. The army shipped him to [46:20] Germany. Maybe it was the Hashem that [46:22] did that the army. [laughter] [46:26] >> Yeah. Right. So that's [46:27] >> maybe both. [46:29] >> Maybe both. Right. Yes. So yeah, that's [46:31] that's how we Right. They said that [46:34] perhaps because he spoke German. I They [46:36] don't ask. They do what they do. The [46:38] army doesn't care about your personal [46:40] likes and dislikes. [46:42] >> I'm curious if he was so scared to be [46:44] sent to Germany. [46:46] >> No. [46:47] >> No. Henry was not scared of anything. [46:50] >> After what he went through, he was not. [46:52] >> If he ever was scared, he was. [46:54] >> Now he's not scared anymore. [46:56] >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, he liked being in [46:58] Germany. He he knew how to get around [47:01] and people liked him immediately. And he [47:04] had a good he had an easy time in [47:06] Germany at that time. One mark, one [47:09] dollar would give you four marks. [47:11] >> It's the opposite with with [47:14] bad. So [47:14] >> yeah. So right, the that the the [47:17] soldiers had had a good life there after [47:19] the war. [47:19] >> Imagine his life how it would have [47:21] turned out if he went to Korea. [47:23] [laughter] [47:24] >> He probably would have married a some [47:25] Korean woman. [47:28] >> I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. We have [47:31] We have no no way of knowing right now. [47:33] >> Could you tell us and I know there's [47:34] there's a few parts to the story about [47:38] when you wanted to convert. I know you [47:40] started saying it, but I know there's [47:42] more [47:43] >> Yeah. [47:43] >> chapters. [47:44] >> Yes. Right. Yes. So before we got [47:46] married, I wanted to convert and Henry [47:48] says, "A piece of paper means nothing to [47:51] me. You are Jewish in my mind and my [47:55] that's how I look at you." And first I [47:58] went along with that and then I I taught [48:01] myself to keep kosher because I wanted I [48:04] wanted a Jewish home, not just a pretend [48:06] Jewish home. So but it was not not real [48:10] real kosher to begin with. It takes a [48:12] long time without proper instructions. [48:14] >> I grew up with kosher. [48:16] >> Yeah. [48:16] >> And I still [48:17] >> Yeah. [48:17] >> feel like sometimes I [laughter] don't [48:19] know if my kitchen's kosher. [48:21] >> Still I'm still still learning. Yes. [48:23] >> It's hard. It's really hard. [48:24] >> Right. Yeah. But it's not as hard when [48:26] you really want it, you know. [48:27] >> No. No. Yeah. [48:28] >> So yeah. So little by little also [48:31] Passover [48:32] I I had dishes in the basement. I slept [48:34] them up and [48:36] >> Wow. [48:36] >> And I I just did everything I could [48:38] possibly do. And I wanted my children to [48:41] know that they were Jewish. [48:43] >> And I wanted them to know that you don't [48:44] eat meat and milk together and and and [48:47] all of that. They should they should [48:49] know who they are. [48:50] >> Yeah. [48:50] >> And even that you lick Friday night [48:53] candles. But Henry didn't want to go to [48:54] synagogue. He insisted that only old [48:56] people go. [48:57] >> He he wasn't that religious. He he was a [49:00] he was a very good person in his heart. [49:03] But but religion was not a big thing. [49:05] But he he was a proud Jew. And in his [49:08] defense, he he had such a scarring [49:10] childhood. It's [49:11] >> unfair. [49:12] >> He also didn't grow up religious. [49:14] >> You mentioned he grew up as a gentile, [49:17] >> right? They lived as Gentiles. They [49:18] start but they were none of them were [49:21] religious. The whole Spurerber family [49:24] went from Liski Poland. It's Colombia [49:27] Poland to Kuwa Germany in the 20s. They [49:31] wanted to get away from the life and I [49:35] have genealological research on that [49:37] that it was the grandparents and uh [49:41] three brothers and a sister and out of [49:45] them only [49:47] two survived. [49:49] >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Pearl. Yeah. only two [49:52] survived and we didn't we didn't even [49:54] know that that uh that the two survived [49:58] until until after I did a lot of [50:01] research. [50:01] >> Wow. [50:02] >> Wow. This episode is just heating up and [50:04] you want to stick around for it. But [50:05] first, if there's one thing today's [50:07] episode proves, it's that you really [50:08] never know where your story is going to [50:10] take you. The daughter of a Nazi ending [50:12] up marrying an Orthodox Jew. You [50:15] couldn't write the story if you tried. [50:17] And I think there's actually a powerful [50:18] lesson in there for anyone who's dating. [50:21] Sometimes the person you're supposed to [50:22] marry isn't coming from the place you [50:24] expected. And that's one of the things I [50:26] love about JW. JW has been helping [50:29] Jewish singles find each other for over [50:31] 25 years with more than 4,000 verified [50:33] marriages. And here's a statistic that [50:35] says everything. More than 77% of those [50:38] marriages are between people from [50:40] different cities or even different [50:42] countries. Because your best might not [50:44] live down the block. They might not be [50:46] in your usual circle. You might never [50:48] meet them unless you're willing to look [50:51] beyond what's familiar. JW has tens of [50:54] thousands of serious marriage-minded [50:56] singles from across the Jewish world [50:58] from to modern Orthodox from New York to [51:02] everywhere in between. So after hearing [51:04] a story like the one you're hearing [51:05] today, maybe it's worth being a little [51:08] more open to where your own story comes [51:10] from. Go take that step. Find your [51:12] chosen one on jwed.com. [51:15] Now, every day, the U women's initiative [51:17] is creating opportunities for Jewish [51:20] women around the world to be inspired, [51:22] to grow, and to connect and make a [51:26] meaningful difference in their [51:27] communities. And you may know the [51:28] Women's Initiative through Nakomi, its [51:30] flagship daily learning program, [51:32] reaching thousands of women around the [51:33] world. But that's just one part of what [51:35] the Women's Initiative makes possible. [51:38] Through innovative programming, [51:39] leadership development, mentorship, [51:41] meaningful learning, and opportunities [51:42] for connection, the Women's Initiative [51:44] is helping women grow personally, [51:46] strengthen the communities, and inspire [51:48] those around them. This Tuesday and [51:49] Wednesday, August 25th and 26, you have [51:52] the opportunity to help that work [51:54] continue, and help build what comes [51:56] next. Join the OU women's initiative for [51:58] give back build forward and your gift [52:00] helps sustain the programs reaching [52:02] thousands of women today while creating [52:04] new opportunities for inspiration, [52:06] leadership, growth, and connection [52:08] tomorrow. Whether you've learned through [52:10] Nakomi, participated in another women's [52:12] initiative program, or simply believe in [52:13] the investing Jewish women and the [52:15] impact they have on their families and [52:17] communities, you can be part of what [52:19] comes next. Scan the QR code on your [52:21] screen or visit uwomen.org/forto [52:25] together. give back today and build [52:26] forward for tomorrow. Now, last thing I [52:28] have to say, we flown LL plenty of [52:30] times, but few years ago, we decided to [52:32] try another airline. We're not making [52:35] that mistake again. It wasn't more [52:36] reliable. The prices weren't better, and [52:38] the overall experience just wasn't the [52:40] same. I've got two trips to Israel [52:42] coming up. Actually, one is tomorrow [52:43] morning. Some really nice interviews [52:45] coming. But when I'm traveling for work, [52:47] I really need reliability and and I need [52:49] to know I'm getting to Israel, and [52:51] that's why I booked Lal. For me, Alal is [52:53] the most reliable way to get to Israel. [52:55] They understand the route and they [52:57] understand the Jewish traveler. And [52:59] every time I fly with them, the [53:00] experience keeps getting better and [53:02] better. And if Kaneka in Israel is even [53:04] on your radar, now is the time to book. [53:06] Getting your tickets now is a smart [53:08] investment. And you lock in your trip [53:09] early and have one less thing to worry [53:11] about and also get better prices as [53:13] Hanukkah gets closer. Whether you're [53:14] traveling for business, visiting family, [53:16] or spending Yer, fly allal and travel [53:19] with confidence. Now back to this week's [53:21] episode. [53:22] >> So, so what's what's the next chapter of [53:24] you uh attempting to convert? [53:27] >> Yeah. Okay. Right. So then I was as I [53:31] went to synagogue and watched other [53:32] people and I I felt and I also heard [53:35] some stories that if you're not legally [53:38] Jewish, you can't have a bar mitzvah for [53:40] your child, baritzvah, whatever. And [53:43] then I kept on saying to Henry, you [53:45] know, I really would feel better if we [53:46] already, you know, if we do that, if if [53:49] I if I'm legally Jewish. Then he finally [53:52] he didn't let me talk to the rabbi. He [53:55] went to the rabbi and the rabbi said, [53:57] "Well, if she does it, if she make keeps [53:59] kosher and she writes shabas candles, [54:02] I'll convert her." So he he did. And uh [54:07] I had three little girls at that time. [54:09] They went to the swimming pool. They [54:10] didn't they didn't like going to the [54:11] swimming pool. They didn't really [54:12] [clears throat] [54:13] realize what was going on. So, [54:15] >> was that what it was? It was a swimming [54:16] pool. [54:16] >> It a swimming pool at the Jewish center. [54:19] >> So, that was their version of using the [54:21] mikvah, going to the swimming pool. [54:23] >> That was Yes. But yeah, you know, I [54:25] didn't know that. [54:25] >> I know. But Henry scared me so much. He [54:28] said, "The rabbis are going to be there [54:30] watching." I was a nervous wreck. I [54:32] said, "Oh my, [laughter] [54:34] how how am I supposed to do that?" being [54:37] totally, [54:39] you know, but thank God it whether [54:40] wasn't. He scared me though. [laughter] [54:43] >> Was he like joking or he actually [54:45] thought that? [54:45] >> No, no, no. He I don't know whether he [54:47] was joking or whether he just wanted to [54:49] scare me or whatever. Yeah. But no, [54:51] thank God that wasn't it. [54:53] >> And after that we got married. So now [54:55] we're married twice. It did not get [54:57] divorced. We We're really good people. [54:59] [laughter] [55:01] >> But your conversion story continues. [55:04] >> My conversion story continues. Yes. That [55:06] was not the end of it yet. Even that I [55:08] thought it was I feel proud. I feel [55:11] better when I go to sh because now I [55:13] feel I'm really Jewish. I'm not an [55:15] impostor. [55:16] >> So yeah, I felt good and comfortable and [55:19] confident [55:20] >> until my oldest daughter was ready to [55:24] get married. She got married to a [55:26] codward who was a wonderful wonderful [55:29] guy. And Penny and Jesse both went for [55:33] the classes and Penny took a new love [55:36] towards Judaism. She went to Hebrew [55:39] school because she had to [55:40] >> and she did what she had to, but but I [55:42] don't think her heart was 100% in it [55:44] until together with Jesse. They really [55:48] embraced Judaism. They really enjoyed [55:50] it. [55:51] >> Where did they meet the two of them? [55:52] >> They at at DU University of Denver. [55:56] >> Yeah. Right. And Jesse actually came to [55:58] work for us. Penny came to came to our [56:01] office and and she said, "Pa, I have I [56:04] have this friend. I think he's good [56:05] would be a really good salesman." [56:08] So, yes. [clears throat] So, [56:09] >> before they were married, he was already [56:10] working [56:11] >> before they were married. Yes. Yeah. So, [56:13] he he worked dangerous. [56:14] >> He worked for us. Yes. [laughter] [56:16] Yeah. And he he's a good salesman. He [56:19] still is. You He's a little bit like [56:21] Henry in that way. He he knows how to [56:23] talk to people. He knows how to say the [56:25] things that they want to hear. [56:27] [laughter] M. [56:27] >> And then so so as they're going through [56:30] their journey is when you realize that [56:32] that I guess second conversion in the [56:34] swimming pool wasn't [56:35] >> Yeah. Well, we two weeks before the [56:39] wedding, the rabbi calls us in. We [56:42] belong to a conservative synagogue. He [56:44] was an Orthodox rabbi and he had heard [56:47] from somebody that I may not be Jewish. [56:52] So he said, "I hate to tell you this. [56:54] There's some question about Hannah's [56:56] Judaism." So they asked, "Did you [56:58] convert?" I said, "Yes." He didn't even [57:00] know. We were members of their church [57:02] for a long time. He didn't know, but I [57:04] didn't advertise. [57:05] >> You hadn't really shared it. [57:06] >> I felt Yeah. Right. [57:07] >> Yeah. [57:08] >> I said, "Yes." He said, "So, who was the [57:10] rabbi? Where with Detroit, Michigan?" [57:11] Rabbi Lurban. All sounds good. Did you [57:14] go to mikvah? Yes, of course I went to a [57:16] mikvah. Was part of it. He said, "Where [57:17] was the mikvah?" JCC. He says, "I can [57:20] tell you right now, this is not a halic [57:23] conversion. I cannot marry the [57:25] children." So now Jesse was Jewish and [57:28] Penny was not. [57:31] [laughter] [57:31] >> My daughter who grew up Jewish, who [57:33] always knew she was Jewish, all of a [57:34] sudden is told being told you're not [57:37] Jewish. [57:38] >> So there was a there was a [57:40] >> a bombshell. [57:41] >> Absolutely right. [57:43] >> Yeah. That Henry was ready to leave the [57:44] show. He said we we belong in the wrong [57:47] place. This is not for us. Two weeks [57:50] before the wedding, I just let me see [57:52] you know your two. I'm, you know, it's [57:54] it's my problem. So, so they, the rabbi [57:59] converted me, went to went to the [58:02] mikvah, got married for the third time. [58:04] Yay. [58:05] >> Did you actually make a ceremony? [58:07] >> I'm sorry. [58:07] >> You made a ceremony the third time. [58:10] >> Yes. Yeah. I have three kubas. [58:12] >> Oh, wow. Wow. [58:15] >> The first kuba, the rabbi didn't ask. My [58:17] maiden name was Hannah Meyer. He didn't [58:19] ask. [laughter] And I I was I I was [58:22] afraid to talk about anyhow because I [58:25] was [58:25] >> Right. [laughter] [58:27] >> All right. [58:27] >> He didn't know. It was not his fault. [58:30] >> It was It was our fault actually. [58:33] >> The first time. [58:34] >> Yeah. The first time. Yes. Yes. [58:36] >> The second time they thought that that [58:38] that is an illegal Jewish conversion. [58:41] Nobody said that there's something else. [58:43] >> And then and now Penny and Jesse Brookem [58:47] have two children. And both of the [58:49] children chose to become very religious. [58:53] And one is in Israel with with four four [58:56] children expecting a fifth and one is in [58:58] Denver. And I'm blessed more than one [59:01] could be blessed. So I'm I'm so happy [59:04] and proud of them and and happy where [59:06] I'm in life where where I feel totally [59:09] accepted where I feel I don't have to [59:12] hide who I am anymore. and people, you [59:15] know, people appreci I'm in in in areas [59:18] and and in families and in situation you [59:21] Jewish religious situations that I never [59:23] thought I would be welcome in. So I now [59:26] I'm there I I did attend yeshiva dinners [59:29] and hil dinners and you know that the [59:32] whole works. [59:33] >> You're very busy. Yes. [59:35] >> By by the third uh I guess marriage, how [59:39] old were you at that point? [59:41] >> Okay. Uh, [59:44] I was 42, I think. [59:47] >> Mhm. [59:47] >> Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Yes. [59:49] >> And I'm curious, you met me, you were [59:50] talking about your mother-in-law before. [59:52] Could you share more of I guess your [59:54] relationship or perhaps lack of [59:56] relationship that you had with her? [59:57] >> With my mother-in-law? [59:58] >> Yeah. [60:00] >> She was she was very very critical of [60:03] me. She also didn't have a good [60:06] relationship with her son because they [60:08] both are very strong willed. They were [60:10] very they they argued a lot. So she [60:13] thought that she tells she can tell me [60:16] what how to what to tell him [60:18] >> and it didn't work. Nobody could tell [60:21] Henry what to do and but she would n to [60:23] me [60:23] >> and she would come up with the ideas. [60:26] Oh, milk is not good for you. No. and [60:28] and she insisted that she knew and I'm [60:31] supposed to follow whatever she thought [60:33] that she so she tried she tried very [60:36] hard to to uh control me and she also [60:39] would call me a Nazi at times she would [60:41] mad at me. [60:42] >> My gosh. [60:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. [60:44] >> Did you ever reconcile the relationship [60:46] with her? [60:48] >> I I never was I was never angry or bad [60:52] with her. I never I I almost felt that I [60:56] deserved it. I didn't I didn't uh [60:58] >> That's even worse. [60:59] >> Yeah. Yeah. [61:00] >> That [laughter] No, like I almost wanted [61:04] you to say that you were angry. [61:06] [laughter] You know what I mean? [61:07] >> Yeah. [61:07] >> Only because when you turn that into [61:10] your own self-doubt, like clearly this [61:12] was a a her problem that because she [61:15] went through what she went through. [61:17] >> Yeah. So, I know that, right? [61:18] >> But I don't think you saw that like you [61:20] kind of internalized it. Maybe. [61:22] >> No. But I also made sure that we [61:25] included her in everything that we did. [61:27] If we had a Shabbat dinner, we didn't do [61:30] it every I don't know. Sometimes she [61:32] didn't come, but whenever we had [61:35] >> or had other people over, we always [61:37] included her. And sometimes she'd be [61:39] nice and other times she'd be very very [61:41] critical and she'd be it was very [61:43] difficult to be around her. But when it [61:45] worked, I felt so good. I felt I I [61:48] always felt it. I She only had one child [61:51] left, [61:51] >> right? and we were her only family. I [61:54] thought we need to do the best that we [61:57] can no matter what. And she loved the [62:00] children and she she would she would [62:03] come to our house without letting me [62:06] know. She'd pop in and bring friends [62:08] say, "Oh, this is my children, my [62:09] grandchildren." And she but it didn't [62:12] fit so well into my house. It was hard [62:14] for me with Henry, too. We had a life [62:17] and we we were building up a business [62:19] from nothing, from scrap, without money. [62:22] So we were working very very hard and [62:24] she didn't understand that part actually [62:27] we went in business together with his [62:29] parents and he asked me about that and I [62:31] thought I said I don't think that's a [62:33] very good idea but he did it anyway. [62:36] >> Rob sounds that kind of [62:39] >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] So, I was I was [62:41] the secretary, the the uh the the [62:43] receptionist, the bookkeeper. I was I [62:46] was everything behind the scenes. I had [62:48] to get the the phones every single day [62:52] all day long. My mother-in-law didn't [62:54] want to pick up the phone. She didn't [62:55] want to be tied to it. So, I was while [62:59] raising my children, I couldn't go. I [63:01] couldn't leave anywhere because I had to [63:03] get the phone. No cell phones yet. So, I [63:05] had to listen for it when I was outside, [63:07] run in, and get the phone call. It's [63:09] such a good lesson because I think very [63:11] often, you know, people have uh [63:13] mother-in-laws or father-in-laws or just [63:16] in-laws in general that sometimes they [63:17] just don't see eye to eye. Sometimes it [63:19] works out, but it's common that there's [63:21] difficulties and challenges. And you [63:24] know, in your case, literally your gr [63:26] your mother-in-law is calling you a [63:27] Nazi, but you still had such respect for [63:30] her and included her and you know, [63:33] recognized that she was mainly coming [63:36] from a place of pain and and hurt and [63:38] >> Yes. [63:39] >> Right. Yes. Yeah. I always I always felt [63:41] for her in spite in spite of what you [63:43] did. And I was there the end of her [63:46] life. I was with her for hours. Henry [63:49] refused to go. So said, "Okay, then I [63:51] will go." And the nurses thought that I [63:53] was the daughter. And I held her hand [63:56] and I talked to her. Even that she had a [63:59] stroke, she couldn't physically. She [64:01] couldn't hear, but I think she heard [64:03] somehow [64:04] >> after she passed away. You have a [64:07] >> after she passed away, right? [64:09] >> You have a story with [64:10] >> I have a story after she passed away, [64:11] right? Yes. [64:12] >> Hold on. Before you say the story, I [64:14] [laughter] [64:16] I I [64:18] don't know if like I don't know do you [64:20] realize like how like I don't know if [64:23] you realize how major that is that [64:27] you had at like you know at a certain [64:30] point we can say like I know your [64:32] attitude you've shared it with me before [64:33] and I think you had told me and this was [64:36] something that resonated with me and a [64:38] lot of others that you kind of felt like [64:41] you had to [64:43] You have to give them what you wish they [64:47] had. Meaning like they deserved all the [64:48] love in the world. Your husband and I [64:50] guess his mother as well, right? Because [64:52] of what was done to them by humanity, [64:56] right? And you wanted to almost make it [64:58] up to them. [64:59] >> Yes. [64:59] >> And I was reading some of the comments [65:01] um under that little clip we shared. [65:03] Remember we just casually just took this [65:05] video and I said, "This is my new friend [65:06] Hannah." And Hannah was and that was [65:09] what you shared. You said, "I wanted to [65:11] give them everything. I wanted them to [65:12] have the most amazing and not have to [65:14] struggle, not have to work, nothing. I [65:15] want to give them cuz they deserve it [65:16] and I want them to never basically have [65:19] to suffer." And people in the comments [65:21] were like, everyone was blown away, [65:22] right? [65:23] >> But then a few people mentioned and it [65:25] like stuck with me when I was reading [65:26] it. Some of them said things like, "You [65:29] don't owe us anything." Like, "You don't [65:31] owe them anything." It wasn't you. [65:33] >> Yeah. [65:33] >> It It wasn't you. All because you were [65:37] born. You didn't choose to be born into [65:38] that. Like you [65:41] >> you say you're not strong. You say you [65:43] only became strong recently, but you [65:45] don't realize how strong you were the [65:46] whole time [65:47] >> because [clears throat] [65:48] that takes a lot of strength to be able [65:50] to like see that at [65:52] >> you were in you like what like not even [65:54] 20 when you met Henry and then you had [65:57] this dedication. Yeah. [65:58] >> But the part that makes me sad is like [66:01] you don't you don't really you didn't [66:03] really owe them anything cuz it wasn't [66:05] you. And your compassion led you to [66:08] >> want to like give to them [66:10] >> and they were hurting you, right? Like [66:11] he like she was hurting you. She was not [66:14] maybe physically, but she was hurting [66:16] you emotionally. [66:17] >> Yeah. [66:17] >> And it's it's strength, but then it's [66:20] also like [66:21] >> she didn't know how not to. [66:22] >> I know, right? [66:23] >> This wasn't Yeah. this was a to be [66:25] vicious against me. But I think [66:27] >> it just boggles my mind that you were [66:29] able to realize that. [66:30] >> Yeah, it was not easy. There was a time [66:33] when I was close to [66:36] to actually actually I had a a a hand of [66:41] a handful of [66:43] Valium [66:45] when one time Henry Henry vis his mother [66:48] visited us in in in in Denver. She still [66:51] lived in Detroit and Henry would ignore. [66:54] We didn't listen to her and she she [66:56] followed me around constantly. If I [66:59] didn't lock the bathroom door, she would [67:01] be in the bathroom with me as well. [67:03] Continuously telling me what I should or [67:05] should not do, what I should not my [67:08] about my children, about everything. And [67:10] I just had it I couldn't take anymore. [67:13] So I I I just shared it with Henry [67:15] because I've had I at times I shared [67:17] when she was over overly hard on me and [67:20] he would just say he would say just hang [67:21] up on her just ignore her but that time [67:24] he said to me you your parents are never [67:28] coming here again even if my parents [67:30] only were there twice but I I felt that [67:34] he is turning against me. I was ready I [67:37] not I I maybe I panicked. I had a a a [67:41] handful of valium and I I had in my [67:45] mouth. He somehow felt it and he came [67:48] back into the bedroom. He says, "What [67:49] did you just do and I I some of my [67:53] dissolved." So I But that would have [67:57] Yeah. I wasn't actively thinking [67:59] suicide, but I I just I I couldn't help [68:03] myself. So that's the only time I ever [68:05] did something like that. And I I don't I [68:08] will never ever ever do anything like [68:10] that again. But out of desperation out [68:12] of desperation is when I did that. But [68:15] but uh yeah, I had some other close [68:17] calls. But [snorts] but thank God it all [68:20] worked out. It all worked out. [68:24] >> Well, [laughter] [68:26] I wasn't planning on sharing that, but [68:28] it's it's the truth also. It's part of [68:31] it's the part of the whole thing. when I [68:34] had problems. [68:36] I had a problem with one of my with my [68:38] fourth pregnancy. I had nobody to talk [68:42] to. I was [snorts] so sick. I had nobody [68:45] to talk to. Henry wouldn't let me have [68:47] friends. So, I couldn't share with [68:48] anybody. [68:50] Henry [68:52] thought that I tricked him into the [68:53] pregnancy. [68:55] So, I [snorts] reverted into myself. If [68:57] I'm going to I'm going to [69:01] concentrate on the baby, I'll be fine. [69:03] and I'll be fine. I my children were [69:05] already in school and I thought I will I [69:08] I will just concentrate on that and [69:11] because he didn't talk to me for half a [69:13] year insisting that I that I tricked him [69:16] because I wanted a big house. I don't do [69:19] things like that. My [snorts] integrity [69:21] is my strongest trait and when that gets [69:23] attacked it's tough. It's really tough. [69:26] >> So yeah. So yeah, I had a I had a tough [69:29] time, but everything, you know, [69:31] eventually worked itself out. [69:33] >> Wow. [69:33] >> I lost a baby. [69:36] >> That baby. [69:36] >> That baby. Yes. Yeah. That was would [69:38] have been my boy. [69:41] Yeah. That was that was very very very [69:44] hard. [69:46] And he wouldn't even stay with me when I [69:49] was in such pain. I [69:53] the doctor said we were lucky because I [69:55] I had to be in the hospital for several [69:57] weeks afterwards. All my chemicals, [70:00] everything was off. My kidneys were [70:02] barely working. And Henry insisted that [70:05] in Poland people give give birth in the [70:08] fields and then they go back to work. [70:10] Not like this, but yeah. But yeah, you [70:13] know, he he was damaged by the Holocaust [70:15] also. He didn't have the capacity for [70:18] empathy, [clears throat] [70:19] but he was a he was a great guy in so [70:22] many many ways, you know, that that [70:24] Yeah. But yeah, it wasn't always easy. [70:27] It wasn't always easy. [laughter] [70:31] Understatement. [70:33] Is it is it because [snorts] for for for [70:35] you it's your life but for us and I [70:37] think anyone who's hearing your journey [70:40] it's just so [70:42] wild that you know you have this this [70:44] this person who grew up in in a Nazi [70:46] home married to this Jewish uh Holocaust [70:49] survivor and [70:51] >> and and and as your journeys are [70:54] continuing and you're having your [70:56] challenges and struggles but you're the [70:58] force in the home who's encouraging that [71:02] deeper relation relationship with [71:03] Judaism. It's it's [71:04] >> absolutely Yes. Yes. I I converted in [71:08] spite of Henry, not because of Henry. [71:11] [laughter] Once I got the taste of [71:13] Judaism, it it just grew. And so, thank [71:16] God for Hashem. He put me in the right [71:19] track, the right people, the right [71:21] things. So, yes, it's not supposed to be [71:23] easy all the time. So, we learn from [71:25] that. We we get stronger if it doesn't [71:28] kill us. [laughter] [71:29] Makes us strong. I mean, they didn't [71:31] make that up for nothing. It's true, [71:34] >> right? Yes. [71:35] >> Um I think that we didn't we can't plan [71:38] to have emotional breakdowns, [laughter] [71:41] but um I warned you before. I told Yakob [71:45] I'm going to come on, but you have to be [71:46] comfortable cuz I might cry. Um I'm okay [71:50] with it. I'm not embarrassed to cry. [71:52] >> Well, we are human. So, right. [71:54] >> We're humans. We're also women. [71:55] >> It does. [laughter] [71:56] Yes. That's awesome. Yes. [71:58] >> But tears don't belong to women. They [72:00] don't. So I just have to say that I have [72:02] a lot of like [72:03] >> I have brothers like I you know Hashem [72:06] didn't give it out like some people [72:08] think it got like dumped on the women. [72:09] There there are people all different [72:11] ones and they all [72:12] >> Yes. Yes. [72:13] >> need to embrace there. [clears throat] I [72:14] have a very I have a son who is very [72:16] very sensitive by nature and [snorts] [72:18] >> it's important to me that he understands [72:21] the capacity he has for greatness with [72:25] his tears with his sensitivities. I [72:28] don't want him to ever [snorts] lock it [72:30] in cuz then he's not himself, you know. [72:33] >> Exactly. Yes. We have to be able to [72:34] share and not being embarrassed about [72:36] it. [72:36] >> But I think that's what happened to [72:37] Henry. So I just want to [72:39] >> for a second if I may, Yakov, I I feel [72:41] like if we're going to be this [72:43] >> I don't know what they want to call it [72:44] in today's culture. Raw transparent, you [72:47] know, like it's so cool to be like [72:49] authentic. Okay. So, we're being very [72:50] authentic, but we in in the [72:55] in the space of being authentic, it's [72:57] important to provide a followup. And to [73:00] me, I'll be very honest. The thing that [73:04] I admire about you the most, okay, the [73:08] most more than your heroic life and your [73:11] coming [laughter] to Judaism and [73:13] everything else that we haven't even [73:15] heard about [73:16] is the fact that with every single [73:19] painful experience that you've been [73:20] through, whether some of it you may [73:23] someone might say, "Oh, well, you may [73:25] have brought something on yourself by [73:26] making this choice." Doesn't matter. [73:28] looking back at your life and looking at [73:30] you right now and hearing about the [73:33] choices that you make right now today to [73:36] be happy, to smile, to pursue [73:39] relationships with difficult people. [73:41] I think that followup [73:44] is so important and I want to I want you [73:46] to share like why it's important for a [73:49] person who goes through I don't know [73:52] call it trauma call it hardships [73:54] whatever you want to call it [73:57] why it's important for us to [74:01] not look at those people [74:05] and blame them and live our lives [74:07] blaming people rather focusing on [74:12] growing ourselves, [74:13] >> right? It is. [74:14] >> And I don't want to minimize the pain [74:16] for people like sometimes the right [74:18] thing to do is to either separate [74:19] yourself or whatever. I'm not a [74:21] psychologist, [74:22] >> right? [74:23] >> But like tell me about your choices that [74:25] you make today [74:26] >> to even think about Henry with respect [74:28] and love like you do every day. [74:30] >> Yes. I feel that that everybody has [74:35] weaknesses, everybody has strengths and [74:37] some people have big burdens and for us [74:40] to be able to forgive them and to accept [74:43] them as they are since we know we can't [74:45] change them. We can change people only [74:48] people themselves can change if they [74:50] want to and not even always for that [74:52] either. Look at people with with [74:55] compassion. Look at them. [74:58] We haven't walked in their shoes. Even [75:00] my father, I haven't walked in his [75:02] shoes. I forgave him. [75:05] Even I I tried, you know, many years [75:08] ago, even when I still lived in Germany [75:11] and I worked for the European Exchange [75:13] Commission, I bought him a a sweater [75:15] vest. I always wanted to do something [75:17] for him. Well, that vest was two sizes [75:19] too big. To me, he was a giant. He was a [75:22] little man at 18 years old. I did not [75:25] know he was a small man. [laughter] [75:27] >> Right. is that he it's bizarre on your [75:30] mind. [75:31] >> Yeah, in my mind he was a giant. [75:33] [laughter] So yeah, your mind can do [75:36] very interesting things to you. So yes, [75:39] but for my mother too, [75:41] you know, I I wanted to give them [75:44] something for Christmas. That was way [75:45] before I was still a child. And I stole [75:48] things. I never stole anything for [75:50] myself, but I stole things to give my [75:53] parents and my my siblings for [75:55] Christmas. And I I I stole one of these [75:59] uh fab pencil thing in the school that I [76:03] went to and I looked I looked if anybody [76:05] left left anything. I wanted to make [76:08] that good and go there and give and give [76:10] them. But I never had had that chance. [76:12] So I still feel bad about what my mother [76:15] should have done instead of that. Where [76:17] did you get that? She knew I had no [76:18] money. Let's return that. That's not [76:20] ours. But no, no, she she kept it and I [76:24] I stole uh like silverware because we [76:27] had no silverware and in the restaurants [76:30] it was tied down to to to the table [76:33] which was chained down so you could not [76:35] take it with you after the war. A lot of [76:37] people didn't have anything. So I would [76:39] I would have a muffler and I would go [76:41] and I would take one piece and I would n [76:44] they were luminant. They were not [76:45] anything expensive but but I wanted to [76:49] give something. I always wanted to give [76:50] something and so so I did. I did. [76:55] >> Do you regret those choices to give to [76:57] the people that were [76:59] >> even on even the ones that were not good [77:01] to me? Right. I don't know. [77:02] >> Do you regret that? [77:03] >> No. No. I do not regret. No. No. No. No. [77:05] [snorts] No. No. I I know. I tried the [77:08] best that I could. Not some I don't know [77:10] what my goal was. Maybe I thought they [77:12] would recognize me for worthy a good [77:15] person. I don't know why, but I wanted [77:17] to. I wanted to and I did. So yeah. [77:20] Yeah. My parents did not respond all [77:22] that much. They knew I was getting [77:24] married. They could not come. I don't [77:27] know if they would have wanted to come. [77:28] Uh but but I I raised a Jewish family [77:32] and I I observed Jewish holidays and uh [77:36] I really didn't appreciate Christmas [77:39] cards at that point anymore, but yeah. [77:41] But they they did anyhow. So when my [77:44] youngest daughter got married, D'Vorah [77:46] was the youngest and my parents wanted [77:49] to come to the wedding and uh even [77:52] though I [77:54] my my father was challenging so I didn't [77:56] really know exactly how he was going to [77:58] behave and they came and um we had a [78:02] beautiful event. We had it at our house [78:05] with large property. A huge tent in the [78:08] backyard with music and everything. [78:10] Beautiful flowers. Everything was just [78:13] beautiful. Beautiful. The weather [78:14] cooperated. We had the hopa outside. It [78:17] was wonderful. Wonderful. [gasps] [78:19] However, my father when they did the hor [78:23] the hora he was hitting the guests. He [78:26] was he it's possible that he drank too [78:29] much. He was an alcoholic, but I could I [78:31] I never noticed exactly what he did, how [78:34] much he drank, but he was unpredictable. [78:37] So the next morning, it wasn't just me. [78:40] Other people noticed it also. So I [78:42] confronted him and I said, "You really [78:44] embarrassed me. Finally, you know, f I I [78:47] live a respectable life. I have good [78:49] friends. I live in a nice area and you [78:51] are ruining my life when you do that." [78:54] And he was very very upset. How dare I [78:57] talk to him in front of the family? And [79:00] he didn't talk to me for several days. [79:03] Then I said to him, you should be proud [79:05] of me that I'm finally able to stand up [79:08] to you that I can also tell you my [79:10] feelings. And he he he wasn't very happy [79:14] about it, but it maybe did sink in. But [79:18] no, I I still kept relationship with [79:20] him. And when when he passed away, I was [79:22] the one at his side. with with with my [79:28] let's see my youngest sister yes the [79:31] oldest sister who who was their favorite [79:34] one had flown in from the states but she [79:37] was too tired to come to the to come to [79:40] the hospital when her father was dying. [79:42] So it was me and my younger sister, the [79:44] ones that were damaged the most, that [79:47] got the most beatings. We were there at [79:49] his side. [79:51] But yes, and and uh he was he was [79:55] suffocating. He was he has a lot of limb [79:58] in his throat and it felt like he was [80:00] like he couldn't breathe. And I kept on [80:02] asking the nurses, "Suction him. Suction [80:04] him." And they said, "It bothers him [80:06] more to be suctioned. It's better to [80:08] just let him because this is the the [80:10] last part of his life. So, but it was [80:12] hard. I felt like I was suffocating [80:15] myself. I Right. That's quite a few [80:17] years ago. Remember that very clearly. [80:21] >> Yeah. But [80:22] >> I know that in in 4 months you're going [80:24] to be 90 90 years old. [80:27] >> I'm sorry. [80:27] >> I know that you're going to be 90 years [80:29] old in in 4 months. Yes. [80:30] >> Um and what's remarkable to me [80:33] [laughter] is you love it. [80:34] >> Yeah. No, you're you're you're amazing. [80:37] And to me to me, it's obviously amazing [80:40] that you're you're at at at your age and [80:43] and honestly, you seem like you're 20 [80:45] years younger than you are, literally, [80:46] both mentally and physically. But what's [80:49] so interesting to me is that you only [80:51] started publicly sharing your story, [80:54] your full story, only five years ago. [80:56] >> That's right. Yes. Yes. What what [80:59] shifted in you to be able to find that [81:01] strength to finally not be that person [81:05] behind the scenes and and finally share [81:08] who you are? [81:09] >> My granddaughter, I always felt very [81:12] very close to her from the minute she [81:14] was born. She had her eyes wide open and [81:17] she always looked through me [laughter] [81:19] and we were were very close from the [81:21] very very beginning. She was very she [81:25] would come and she would love to stay at [81:26] my house and she'd sit on the on the [81:29] kitchen counter next to the sink and she [81:31] wanted to see exactly what I was doing [81:33] and she I made lemon tea and she watched [81:37] exactly how I did. Oh, lemon tea. She [81:39] would always go she went home. She [81:41] wanted her mother to make lemon tea for [81:42] her. No, you have to do it this way [81:44] because grandma No, no, no, not this. [81:46] You have to do this first. [laughter] [81:49] So she always she she she was very very [81:53] close to me. So when she asked me to [81:54] talk, I didn't want to say no. And I [81:57] figured it's fine. I a few friends I [81:59] figured, you know, if they want to know, [82:01] why not? But I didn't realize how many [82:04] people there were. And then I didn't [82:06] realize how people reacted. So when I [82:09] realized that people, you know, didn't [82:11] shun me, I felt, you know, maybe it's [82:13] not such a bad thing after all. [82:16] Listen, I just saw a quote somewhere. A [82:19] quote? [82:19] >> Yes. [82:20] >> This is how it went. I hope I don't mess [82:22] this up. I just saw this quote and it [82:24] made me think of you. So, I I saved it [82:26] in my brain. I put it in the back and I [82:29] said, "I'm going to take this out when I [82:30] meet you." [82:31] >> Okay. [82:31] >> And I'm so happy I remembered it because [82:33] this I think you'll like it. [snorts] [82:36] The quote was, [82:39] "One day you'll tell the story of what [82:43] you overcame [82:45] >> and it will become someone else's [82:47] survival guide." [82:50] >> Wow. That's profound. That's profound. [82:54] >> It's you. [82:54] >> Yeah. Wow. [82:55] >> Because you never knew you had a story [82:57] and [82:58] >> you lived a life of experiences [83:02] >> that you, like you said, they weren't [83:05] easy. There are so many people walking [83:07] around with private struggles. [83:09] >> Yes. [83:10] >> And there are so many people that look [83:11] like they have it together, but secretly [83:14] are not sure what to do with [83:15] relationships. [83:16] >> And I'm encouraging everyone, [83:19] >> be like Hannah. [laughter] [83:21] >> Choose Hannah. Like, pick a role model [83:23] for yourself. I don't care who it is. [83:24] For me, I have a bunch as you can see. [83:26] But knowing you has transformed the way [83:29] that I I don't you know better than any [83:32] s I have a lot of self-help books in my [83:34] collection and I like them for different [83:35] reasons. [83:36] >> I'm sure you do. Yes. [83:37] >> But you [83:37] >> but you write them too probably. [83:39] [laughter] [83:39] >> One day I'm starting a memoir but it's [83:41] not coming out for many years. Um so [83:45] yeah I just wanted to share that because [83:46] I think I think you embody that message [83:50] >> without even knowing it maybe. [83:52] >> Right. Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't all [83:54] always this way because I did suffer a [83:56] lot you know taking the guilt out like [83:59] you said [84:01] thinking that it's my fault that people [84:04] are are the way they are or that I [84:06] deserve to be treated that way or [84:07] something. I I'm totally over that. [84:10] People [84:12] are not machines and people do have [84:14] their strengths and weaknesses. [84:16] Everybody even the ones that claim that [84:18] they're they don't do anything wrong. We [84:20] all we all have our faults and it's just [84:24] beautiful when we can accept for who [84:27] they are. I have one daughter that [84:28] doesn't talk to me at all and I've tried [84:31] everything as far as you know sharing [84:33] pictures, memories, emails, calls. It it [84:38] doesn't penetrate. So, the only thing [84:40] left for me to do is pray. And that's [84:42] what I do. And I hope that she's not a [84:45] bad person. I don't wish her anything [84:47] bad. But she also doesn't let me talk to [84:50] her children or grandchildren. And it's [84:52] a big loss. It's I I think she's in more [84:55] pain about it than I am. It's it's it's [84:59] a it's a very painful thing. But I [85:00] choose to concentrate on the things that [85:03] I can make a difference. And so I I'm [85:07] you know, with the people that that [85:09] enjoy my company, enjoy, you know, who I [85:12] am. [85:13] >> Am I perfect? No, far from it. But I'm [85:15] not not trying to be perfect. I just [85:18] want to be kind and good and making the [85:22] world just a little bit better. If I can [85:23] do that, it's it's worth life is worth [85:27] living. So, we want to do that. [85:31] >> Hannah, thank you so much. [85:32] >> Thank you. [85:33] >> Thank you for listening to this week's [85:35] episode. Please show Hannah some love in [85:37] the comments section and tell her how [85:39] she is a hero. I want to thank first and [85:41] foremost for connecting me with Hannah. [85:44] If you haven't checked out Incredible [85:46] Kids, it's incredible. We'll link them [85:48] and your kids will love them so much. [85:50] Also, thank you to the Judo Witches for [85:52] hosting us. If you want of the best [85:54] Jewish art, I highly recommend you check [85:56] out her gorgeous art linked [music] down [85:57] below. Thanks again to our friends this [85:59] week, Kabad Lal, Primal Crisp, JW [86:02] Wheeliz, and the U Women's Initiative. [86:04] Now, Hannah Star reminds me that our [86:06] past doesn't have to have the final say. [86:08] She was born to a Nazi father, endured [86:10] abuse, and carried guilt for things that [86:12] were never her fault. Most people would [86:14] understand if she became bitter. [86:17] Instead, [music] she chose joy. She [86:19] laughs easily, sees the good in people, [86:20] and built a beautiful Jewish family with [86:22] from children and grandchildren after [86:24] converting three times to become part [86:27] [music] of Cla. If Hannah can wake up [86:29] each day with gratitude after everything [86:31] she's been through, what's stopping me? [86:33] What's stopping you? We all have [86:35] challenges. We all carry disappointments [86:37] and pain. But we also have a choice. We [86:39] can let our past define us. Or we can [86:41] choose to smile anyway, grow anyway, and [86:43] keep moving forward. Hannah's life is [86:45] proof that your circumstances [music] [86:47] don't determine your future. Your [86:49] attitude does. If she can choose joy [86:51] after everything she's endured, then [86:53] maybe [music] we can choose it, too. [86:55] Want to remind you all that inspiration [86:57] is everywhere. [86:59] >> [music] [86:59] >> living.
