Transcript [00:00] I don't know how to recognize any [00:01] terrorists. That's not my job, but we're [00:03] sort of, you know, guarding the [00:05] periphery and we have the special [00:09] intelligence soldiers who are there to [00:10] make sure no terrorists take advantage [00:13] of this humanitarian step. So, we see [00:16] everyone walking by. [00:18] And the women and children are going [00:19] through, obviously, and also even [00:21] fighting age males who are just [00:23] non-combatants. [00:25] And something that came up a lot with [00:28] people in my unit or something that hit [00:31] them very hard was seeing kids who are [00:34] the same age as their kids. [00:36] >> Welcome to this episode of Shoulder to [00:37] Shoulder, a podcast where a pastor and a [00:39] rabbi get to the heart of issues that [00:41] matter to people of faith. I'm Pastor [00:43] Doug Reed here with my friend Rabbi [00:44] Pesach Wilschanski. And on this episode, [00:46] we're going to be having a conversation [00:48] with Mayor Wilschanski. And I'm so [00:50] excited Pesach's son is on with us. [00:53] We've had Pesach's dad on before. [00:55] Uh my family's been on before, but we're [00:57] getting to know the family. This is [00:58] good, Pesach. I'm excited. [01:00] >> Oh, yeah. [01:00] >> But before we jump into that [01:01] conversation, please like our Facebook [01:03] page and join our Facebook group, the [01:05] Shoulder to Shoulder Community, where [01:06] you can interact with me and Pesach all [01:09] week long. The best way to support this [01:11] podcast is to go on over to Patreon, [01:12] subscribe to Shoulder to Shoulder. For [01:14] just $10 a month, you're helping us [01:16] bring this message of Shoulder to [01:17] Shoulder to more and more people all [01:19] around the world. As a thank you for [01:21] your $10 subscription, you'll get [01:22] exclusive access to chapter by chapter [01:24] Bible study beginning in Genesis chapter [01:27] 1 from Rabbi Pesach and myself. So, go [01:29] on over to Patreon, subscribe to [01:31] Shoulder to Shoulder for just $10 a [01:32] month. [01:34] We're grateful for our sponsor Israel [01:35] 365 News, which is the place for you to [01:37] go and get your news and information [01:39] before going to anyone else. Go on over [01:41] to Israel the number 365news.com [01:45] and be sure to check out some of their [01:47] articles and read Rabbi Pesach and my [01:50] columns. Pesach, each and every week we [01:52] support some incredible products and [01:54] initiatives coming out of Israel 365. [01:57] What are we supporting today? [02:00] >> We are supporting a very specific [02:03] family. There was a woman by the name of [02:04] Ronit Elimelech who was 44 years old, a [02:08] volunteer EMT, first responder, [02:11] and a loving mother to three children. [02:13] Two of them on the autism spectrum. And [02:15] on March 1st, 2026, on the second day of [02:19] the war with Iran, a ballistic missile [02:21] struck the synagogue shelter in Beit [02:24] Shemesh where her family sought safety. [02:26] Ronit stayed behind to help her mother [02:28] walk out, her mother who was moving [02:30] slowly. Neither of them made it, and [02:32] today her husband, Nissim, is facing the [02:35] ultimate crisis raising three [02:37] traumatized children alone after losing [02:39] their mother in an instant. And we have [02:42] a special campaign at Israel 365 Charity [02:45] to help the Elimelech family. [02:47] The [02:48] every every penny goes to help them. [02:51] Your gift covers what Nissim is having [02:53] trouble covering. Housing costs so his [02:54] children don't lose their home after [02:56] losing their mother, food and groceries, [02:59] utilities, clothing for the three [03:01] growing children, therapy appointments. [03:03] Uh and uh and there is a there are a lot [03:06] of needs. So, we are helping the the the [03:08] Elimelech family, helping out Nissim, [03:10] who has become a single father after his [03:13] heroic wife was killed in a ballistic [03:16] missile attack. So, go to [03:17] israel365charity.com. [03:20] Israel365charity, [03:21] spelled it out as one word, dot com. [03:23] Scroll down to current projects, and [03:26] you'll see the second project in the [03:27] list currently is help Nissim hold his [03:29] family together. [03:30] Let's step up and help this family in [03:32] Israel. [03:34] >> So important, so important. Shoulder [03:36] shoulder listeners, go and do what you [03:37] do, [03:38] and let's give to this family today. [03:41] Pesach, you are back in Israel. You are [03:44] home, but you were in the States. I was [03:46] watching you bounce around. You were [03:47] with a few friends of ours, friends of [03:49] mine. You were down in Texas with our [03:52] our friend Stephen Martin. Love uh [03:54] Pastor Stephen, his church. And you [03:56] bounced around, but you had a [03:59] a traveling companion with you. [04:01] Uh did you enjoy having your son with [04:03] you? [04:04] >> It was unbelievable. I mean, we're going [04:05] to get into that in detail in this [04:07] episode, but first let me just give you [04:08] the rundown of what we did on the trip. [04:11] Uh you know, especially ever since we [04:12] moved to YouTube, Doug, I have to say [04:14] that we have grown this audience [04:16] exponentially. I mean, it's really been [04:18] incredible. The The sheer number of [04:20] people who are now part of the [04:22] shoulder-to-shoulder conversation, the [04:24] shoulder-to-shoulder family has just [04:26] increased so much. So, I want to just [04:27] give a little bit more background, make [04:29] sure people understand that I travel to [04:31] the US about half a dozen times a year, [04:33] sometimes a little more, sometimes a [04:34] little less. And I travel all over [04:37] America and I speak and I build bridges [04:39] between the Jewish and Christian [04:40] communities, speak in Jewish [04:41] communities, speak in Christian [04:42] communities. [04:43] Um and uh on this trip, this was a very [04:46] short trip, a 1-week trip. [04:48] And for the first time, I was uh I was [04:51] joined in the work on the trip with one [04:53] of my children. My son Mayor, who [04:55] traveled with me this time 10 years ago, [04:57] also traveled with me on a trip, but [04:59] then he was just a high school graduate. [05:01] And uh and was along for the ride. We [05:03] went to a lot of baseball games that [05:04] time. And in fact, we were in [05:06] Youngstown, Ohio. I spoke at Bridge of [05:07] Hope on that trip. It was the first time [05:09] I ever spoke at Bridge of Hope was 10 [05:10] years ago. [05:11] A little more than 10 years, actually, [05:12] 16. [05:13] That's right. Uh but but Mayor was with [05:16] me this time and he joined me. And [05:18] anyone who goes to the YouTube channel [05:20] to Rabbi Tovia Singer, the channel that [05:22] this podcast also appears on, and you [05:24] scroll back to a few days ago, we posted [05:26] a video of the of of Mayor's [05:29] uh message that he shared at Stephen [05:31] Martin's church, at Vintage Church in [05:33] Harker Heights in Harker Heights, Texas. [05:36] And Pastor Nate Brown was there and he [05:38] sends his warmest regards to you, Doug. [05:40] Another good friend of ours. [05:41] >> Hello, Pastor Nate. [05:42] >> And I also want to give a shout-out to [05:44] to young Judah on the staff of Vintage [05:47] Church who is currently currently as [05:49] we're recording this landing in Israel [05:52] on an Eagles' Wings young leadership [05:54] trip. And I want to give a special [05:56] shout-out for any of our listeners in [05:58] Lake Charles, Louisiana and I know we [06:00] have them there at Todd Schumacher's [06:01] church at Church of the King. And also [06:04] mention that Caleb Bigwood, son of [06:06] Pastor Josh Bigwood from Church of the [06:09] King in Lake Charles, Louisiana is also [06:11] on the Eagles' Wings leadership trip. [06:16] And let me also add once we're talking [06:18] about the fact that Eagles' Wings is I I [06:20] think it's so important for so many [06:21] years Eagles' Wings has been taking [06:23] pastors on trips to Israel and now [06:25] they're really expanding expanding, you [06:28] know, the Eagles' Wings message which is [06:29] in my opinion the most effective message [06:31] at taking Christians young Christians [06:33] like Doug Reed 10 years ago and opening [06:36] their eyes to what God is doing with the [06:37] land and nation of Israel and now they [06:39] are bringing young leaders in large [06:41] numbers and there's a and we're also [06:44] launching a partnership between Israel [06:46] 365 and Eagles' Wings for the Shabbat [06:49] programming on the Eagles' Wings trips [06:51] and this is going to be the pilot of [06:53] that is going to be this trip. These [06:55] young men and women I believe It is. It [06:57] is mixed. It's young men and women on [06:59] this trip. They are going to be spending [07:02] a Shabbat in Efrat a Friday night dinner [07:06] where they're going to be divided up [07:07] among families. The entire trip is going [07:09] to be going a few to to different [07:12] families in the Jewish community of [07:14] Efrat in the hills of Judea for Friday [07:16] night dinner and that is being [07:17] coordinated and organized on the ground [07:19] by Israel 365 and it's a really natural [07:22] it's a natural partnership between [07:23] Israel 365 and Eagles' Wings. I like to [07:25] think that the Shoulder to Shoulder [07:27] podcast had something to do with that [07:29] but anyway, so there's a lot of exciting [07:31] things going on there. So so we visited [07:33] Stephen Martin's church and that was the [07:34] first time Mayor ever spoke in a church, [07:36] my son Mayor who we're about to meet. [07:38] Don't worry. [07:39] Don't worry. Everyone's on the the of [07:40] their seat. Mayor's coming in soon. [07:41] We're going to meet him. [07:43] Uh and uh and and Mayor spoke in that [07:44] church. [07:46] And then uh [07:47] and and of course I spoke in the church [07:49] as well. We then were in Dallas for an [07:51] important event with American Jewish [07:53] Conservatives [07:54] where we had an evening there were a few [07:56] hundred people who gathered together the [07:58] great bench of Gershon from American [08:00] Jewish Conservative sponsored this event [08:02] hosted this event and I was one of the [08:04] panelists talking about the Iran [08:05] situation, the Iran war and it was uh it [08:08] was a very it was a very uh [08:10] very well attended and and uh and a [08:13] lively well-informed crowd was there. We [08:15] then flew off to Washington, D.C. where [08:17] we spent Shabbat at the Grand Hyatt [08:20] Hotel with a group of young leaders [08:22] young some of them are are currently [08:24] students, some of them are no longer [08:26] students but young leaders mostly [08:28] Christian, some Jews as well in the [08:29] crowd spending a weekend talking about [08:32] advocacy for Israel, the challenges, [08:34] brainstorming solutions. I led a Shabbat [08:37] dinner [08:38] uh including included in the Shabbat [08:40] there we got a chance to hang out over [08:41] the course of the whole weekend with [08:42] Shavas Kestinbaum many people in our [08:44] audience probably have seen him around [08:46] uh a very a very uh important young [08:48] voice [08:49] uh on in D.C. back in May. In the [08:52] conservative movement. Yeah, that's [08:53] right. He he spoke at the advocacy day. [08:55] So we spent Shabbat with him or Shavas [08:57] with Shavas Shabbat with Shavas. It was [08:59] it was a lot of fun there in D.C. And we [09:01] got to know a lot of the a lot of the [09:02] students there. We had wonderful [09:03] conversations. [09:05] And then we drove up uh and then we [09:06] drove up to Philadelphia after Shabbat [09:09] and we went to the Potter's House a [09:11] church that is pastored by Pastor John [09:14] Overson a pastor who I met at a Shabbat [09:16] dinner a number of months ago and this [09:18] was the first time there was ever [09:19] someone like me in this church. I [09:21] brought the message and it was a a [09:23] wonderful church [09:25] in the Drexel Hill area of Philadelphia. [09:27] And then we made our way back. We made [09:29] our way back to Israel. It was a quick [09:30] trip. We hit a few churches, had some [09:33] meaningful time in Washington, D.C. [09:36] And uh I just landed I landed earlier [09:38] today and that's why we're recording a [09:39] day late. If every everyone who was [09:41] waiting, "Where's Where's my shoulder to [09:43] shoulder?" That's why we're That's why [09:45] we're a day late. We had some technical [09:46] issues with the hotel internet, but here [09:48] we are. [09:49] And look, you know, I have to just [09:51] reflect before I bring my son in, Doug, [09:54] that [09:55] um you know, Jewish-Christian relations [09:57] for me is it's not just like, "Oh, this [09:59] is a career This is this weird career [10:01] choice." [10:02] Uh it really is um [10:05] uh you know, [10:06] when I pray three times a day [10:08] when I say the words, "Hear, O Israel, [10:11] the Lord is our God, the Lord is one." [10:12] Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai [10:14] Echad. I think every single time about [10:17] what Rashi, the greatest uh [10:20] and most [10:21] most I don't know what to call him, most [10:23] prominent, most authoritative a biblical [10:25] commentator in Jewish tradition who [10:27] lived in the 11th century, his [10:28] commentary on that verse is that Moses [10:31] said to the people of Israel, [10:33] "Hear, O Israel, listen up, Israel. [10:35] Right now, standing on the banks of the [10:38] Jordan 3,300 years ago, the Lord is our [10:41] God. But one day, the Lord will be the [10:43] one God over all." [10:45] And that means that everyone's together. [10:46] And you know, as Isaiah said that the [10:48] house of you know, that the Temple in [10:49] Jerusalem is a house of prayer for all [10:50] nations. [10:52] And that means that the goal of the [10:54] covenant of Israel from Sinai is to [10:56] bring faith in the God of Israel to all [10:58] the peoples of the earth. And there's no [11:00] greater expression of that of of nations [11:03] of the world uh having faith in the God [11:06] of Israel. And no no greater expression [11:07] of that vision that Moses articulated [11:10] than than Christians who who are [11:13] supportive of Israel, who are shoulder [11:15] to shoulder as this podcast is called, [11:17] or one shoulder with the nation of [11:19] Israel at this time. So, to me, that's [11:21] where I live spiritually, Doug. That's [11:23] where I live theologically. So, to have [11:26] uh to have one of my one of my children, [11:28] to have my son [11:29] uh Uh, you know, and we've talked about [11:31] these matters uh, know, for years [11:32] already between us, but to have him say, [11:34] "Hey, you know, I'd like to get involved [11:36] in this. I'd like to I'd like to [11:37] contribute how I can to this great [11:39] cause." To have him come along with me [11:41] and join me in some churches and [11:43] experience what I do, you know, cuz all [11:44] of my travel that I do down I'm by [11:46] myself and not one of my kids along with [11:48] me. Sure. It was very meaningful. It was [11:49] a It was a a very special trip for me. I [11:51] can't even describe it. I don't have [11:52] words. [11:53] Um, everything I do is exciting and [11:55] interesting and inspiring. Um, but to do [11:58] it with my son was was just next level. [12:02] >> That's incredible and uh, I can't wait [12:04] till my boys are a little older and I [12:06] get to do some of the things that I do [12:08] with them. I've gotten to [12:09] >> are you're moving to Israel. [12:12] >> We are, but uh, I got to bring my son to [12:14] DC and got to do some things and my kids [12:16] are sharing at the churches we go to. [12:18] Uh, but uh, it's very unique for them to [12:20] get to a place where they're picking to [12:22] come alongside. Our kids are still young [12:24] enough they don't have a choice. They're [12:25] coming whether they like it or not. Uh, [12:27] but uh, for your son to choose to do [12:29] this, I think uh, speaks uh, of the call [12:32] on [12:33] uh, his life, your life, the inspiration [12:35] behind it all and I think it's special. [12:37] And so, let's uh, why don't you [12:38] introduce your son and we'll we'll jump [12:41] into the conversation. [12:42] >> Absolutely. So, Mayor Wilkensky is my [12:44] son, my my my oldest son, my the second [12:47] of my eight children. [12:48] And he is a uh, he holds a degree in [12:51] philosophy from Hebrew University. [12:54] Uh, he's also he's spent He has spent [12:56] over 500 days since October 7th serving [13:00] uh, in uh, in various combat situations [13:03] as a as an infantry uh, as an infantry [13:05] soldier moved up to the rank of um, [13:08] of um, [13:09] of sergeant first class. He's a he's a [13:11] squad leader in the Givati Brigade in [13:13] reserves. And uh, [13:16] I don't know what else to say about him. [13:17] He'll let you know about his journey. [13:19] Mayor, welcome to the Shoulder to [13:20] Shoulder podcast. [13:22] >> Happy to be here. [13:24] >> It's awesome to have you on. So, I have [13:27] to ask, you know, you said before we [13:29] were on, you know, you've come back and [13:31] forth to the United States, but you've [13:32] been raised in Israel. [13:34] This trip to the United States, did you [13:35] notice anything different in the US? Did [13:38] you notice any atmosphere stuff that was [13:40] different? What what stood out to you [13:42] this trip to the US? [13:44] >> So, [13:45] it's a good question. There were [13:46] definitely a lot of things that stood [13:48] out. [13:49] Mostly, first of all, what I was doing [13:51] there. You know, the previous times I [13:53] was in the States, I wasn't there to [13:55] speak in churches. [13:56] And also, it was a part of America I'd [13:58] never been to before. [14:00] I'd been to the East Coast a whole bunch [14:02] of times. Also, [14:03] I grew up in a neighborhood in Israel [14:06] with a lot of Americans, but that's [14:08] mostly, you know, Jews from New York, [14:10] Jews from New Jersey. And then suddenly [14:13] to get to the middle of Texas, [14:15] and just it's it's a different America. [14:19] >> It's another country. [14:20] >> Yeah. [14:21] >> [laughter] [14:22] >> Now, that's so it's so incredible. So, [14:24] this was your first time ever in [14:27] churches, or had you been in a church [14:28] before? [14:31] >> I mean, [14:33] I'd never been in a church in this type [14:34] of context. Like I guess [14:37] 10 years ago, as was mentioned before, I [14:39] sort of tagged along, but I was sort of [14:42] a spectator. So, this was the first time [14:45] I was actually paying attention and [14:47] contributing, I would say. [14:49] So, it was it was really a new [14:50] experience. [14:51] >> So, what stood out to you? What was the [14:53] the highlight? What was something that [14:55] made you go, "Wow, that's interesting." [14:57] or was there anything that was [14:58] uncomfortable? [15:01] >> Um [15:02] so, I would say I think the most [15:03] interesting thing about it was [15:06] how interesting it was. And what I mean [15:08] by that is that, you know, most of our [15:10] lives, most people spend all their time [15:13] with people who are of a similar faith [15:16] to them or with certain [15:18] a a lot of similarities. And it's just [15:21] very interesting, especially for the [15:23] first time, to go to a new part of the [15:25] world or a new new states um for a new [15:29] reason and to meet a new kind of person. [15:31] So, even without all the theological [15:33] stuff and why this is important and why [15:35] we do it, just that be able to have such [15:38] an interesting experience, that on its [15:41] own is amazing. [15:44] And [15:44] >> Yeah, you know, I'll go ahead. Yeah, [15:46] keep going. [15:47] Keep going. [15:47] >> Yeah, and just to get, you know, to the [15:49] matter itself, I think, once again, [15:52] before getting into why this is so [15:54] important, it's also just the [15:55] positivity. Like, I felt so welcome and [15:59] so happy to be there and so inspired and [16:03] the energy in the room and everyone I [16:05] interacted with it was the same and [16:07] that's what I expected. It wasn't like I [16:08] was expecting it to be weird or [16:10] anything, but just to have that much [16:13] positivity in a situation is also [16:15] something that it's it's just very [16:17] special. We don't we don't get enough of [16:19] that. [16:21] >> Oh, I want to add in another interesting [16:23] experience that we had there. [16:25] Um so, [16:27] a while back on this podcast, we hosted [16:30] uh [16:30] and we actually hosted [16:32] this program a number of times. We [16:33] hosted Judy Elias. This goes way back to [16:36] the early years of the Shoulder to [16:37] Shoulder. Uh Judy Elias was the is the [16:40] founder of a program called Heroes to [16:42] Heroes, uh which is a program that that [16:45] brings uh combat veterans, US combat [16:47] veterans, mostly who served in Iraq and [16:49] Afghanistan, [16:50] on a spiritual uh healing journey that [16:52] includes that culminates in a trip to [16:54] Israel. [16:56] And and and there've also there've also [16:58] been a number of episodes where we've [17:00] interviewed alumni of the Shoulder to [17:02] Shoulder program, soldiers who've been [17:04] through the program over the course of [17:05] the years of this podcast. I think [17:06] there's probably about three episodes or [17:07] four episodes that we've devoted to [17:09] Shoulder [17:10] uh to sorry, to Heroes to Heroes. [17:13] And [17:14] um part of the Heroes to Heroes program [17:17] uh and the program has is actually just [17:19] winding down now. It's been a while [17:21] since there were American combat vets. [17:23] Well, it's it's it's been a while since [17:24] there were American combat vets you [17:26] know, because Iraq and Afghanistan is [17:28] moving further into the past and it's [17:29] kind of been time for that for that [17:31] program to wind down. It's been a very [17:32] successful program. But, over the last [17:35] year or so, I introduced Mayor to the [17:38] Heroes to Heroes program because Mayor [17:40] himself is a combat veteran. And part of [17:44] the way they run and they've run those [17:45] program those those [17:47] those trips to Israel for these for [17:49] these again, American, not Jewish, [17:52] combat veterans who come to Israel on [17:54] the spiritual journey. What part of what [17:57] they do in the program is they bring [17:59] Israeli combat veterans to participate [18:01] in the trip so that from when they land [18:04] from when the Americans land in Israel [18:06] for the duration of their trip, their [18:07] week and a half trip or so, there are [18:09] Israeli combat vets who are part of the [18:11] trip with them. And they develop very [18:13] close relationships, very close bonds of [18:16] friendship. So, Mayor was on a Heroes to [18:19] Heroes trip recently as the as one of [18:22] the Israeli combat vets on the trip. [18:24] >> Oh, very cool. [18:25] >> Developed some friendships. But, get [18:27] this, three of the vets who were on that [18:30] trip drove out to Harker Heights to hear [18:33] Mayor speak the first time he was in a [18:35] church and they were there present in [18:36] the crowd. [18:37] >> That's super cool. [18:40] >> You know, Mayor, why don't you talk [18:41] about [18:42] you know, what you experienced there [18:43] because when you when you went out to [18:45] Harker Heights and you spoke there, you [18:48] already had in your background some time [18:50] spent with Christians, with other combat [18:53] veterans, with Americans who aren't Jews [18:55] from the Northeast [18:57] that you experienced on Heroes to [18:58] Heroes. Talk about how that experience [19:01] maybe helped prepare you or or was part [19:03] of or maybe the same [19:05] experience of discovery as the trip we [19:07] just took. [19:09] >> Mhm. [19:09] Yeah, so just to frame the timeline [19:13] here, I was on this trip with American [19:15] Army vets around a month ago. So, that's [19:18] only a couple weeks before this most [19:21] recent trip to of me going to the states [19:24] to visit churches. So, basically [19:26] back-to-back and on the trip because [19:30] we're all Army vets and that was [19:31] primarily what we were dealing with. So, [19:33] it's a lot of talk about different [19:36] experiences in the Army and how we [19:37] process those things and how we process [19:40] other things in our lives. [19:42] But, what was most significant to me [19:45] about that trip was [19:48] interacting with people of faith that [19:51] don't share the same faith as me. [19:54] Because the program isn't just centered [19:56] around the military and trauma and [19:59] ethics, it's primarily faith-based. [20:01] That's why the program visits Israel. [20:03] So, we were having all these very, very [20:05] deep discussions about reconnecting to [20:07] our faith and reaffirming our faith and [20:09] reconnecting to God. All these [20:11] discussions all well I'm a Jew and there [20:15] was another another Jew there, so a [20:16] couple Jews and a whole bunch of [20:18] Christians. And it really hammered home [20:20] that there's so much here that we have [20:23] in common and a lot of the messaging [20:26] about reconnecting and taking our faith [20:28] seriously and how what we want the world [20:30] to look like and what our faith is [20:31] about, a lot of that stuff is really in [20:34] common. [20:35] So, getting to see that in these [20:37] one-on-one conversations or this group [20:39] setting really hammered home [20:43] the messaging of the much larger scale [20:46] work that [20:47] people do in the general world of [20:49] Christian-Jewish relations. So, I got a [20:51] little snippet of it and I really felt [20:53] that energy and I saw like, "Hey, [20:56] there's really a lot in common here. [20:58] This isn't trying to build some really [20:59] long bridge over a really big gap. [21:02] The gap isn't as big as we think and [21:04] when we can connect over that small gap, [21:06] you know, it's really powerful. [21:09] >> You know, I I think you said earlier [21:12] that, you know, there's the energy, the [21:14] people, all of that, and you started to [21:16] dabble in there. There There's also the [21:18] theology and the that sort of component [21:22] of it. What What brings you to the table [21:24] theologically? Your dad and I have [21:25] talked about theology all over the [21:28] spectrum, all different conversations [21:30] over the last decade, and so I know a [21:32] lot of his thoughts on this and I he's [21:34] shared in the churches I pastored. [21:36] What What brings you to the table other [21:38] than All right, I had some personal [21:39] experiences, but what about your [21:41] relationship with God and your [21:42] understanding of scripture brings you to [21:45] the table say this is a valuable thing [21:46] to do. [21:48] >> Yes, so [21:50] a lot of that stuff it goes way farther [21:53] back than the past month. It's not like [21:54] I was on this program a month ago and it [21:56] was this great awakening and it, you [21:59] know, structured a whole world view [22:00] rapid-fire and then I went and visited [22:03] some churches. A lot of this stuff goes [22:05] a lot further back. [22:07] I spent after high school, I I'm 28 now, [22:10] so a decade ago after high school I went [22:13] to seminary. I spent 3 and 1/2 years [22:15] there. Spent a lot of my time studying [22:17] the Bible and Jewish theology. [22:19] Then when I went on to study philosophy, [22:22] my main focus wasn't figuring out what [22:25] this philosopher said or that [22:26] philosopher said, it was really trying [22:28] to figure out what I should be saying [22:31] and what I should do and how that ties [22:33] into my faith. [22:35] And that's why the sides of philosophy [22:37] that interest me most are the sides that [22:39] do connect to my faith. [22:41] And so I've really since I finished high [22:44] school, whether it's in the seminary or [22:46] in university, I've basically spent all [22:49] my time [22:50] dealing with these issues and really [22:52] trying to structure my world view both [22:55] from a faith perspective and from a [22:57] general perspective. [22:59] Now, if we go farther back than that, [23:01] unsurprisingly, you know, my dad is my [23:03] dad. I've learned a lot from him, so [23:07] there's a lot there that I didn't have [23:10] to invent the wheel as much as I would [23:12] have if I if he wasn't my dad. So, [23:15] that's obviously a resource I've used a [23:17] lot, but I've also gone on a journey of [23:18] my own and really tried to figure out [23:21] what does it mean for me to be connected [23:22] to God, and what does it mean for me to [23:24] be a Jew, what are the Jews all about, [23:26] what are we as a group, what am I as an [23:28] individual. So, this is stuff I've [23:29] really been doing full-time for a while [23:32] now. It's not a job, but it's an [23:34] occupation. [23:35] >> You know, Mary, you just raised the [23:37] issues of uh [23:39] of, you know, of identity. You just said [23:41] that very quickly in that last sentence [23:42] about [23:43] me as a Jew, as a people, [23:46] um [23:47] you [clears throat] know, who we are and [23:48] and exploring that side of identity and [23:50] how it connects to faith. [23:52] Obviously, [23:54] amidst all of your studies for the last [23:56] few years, it's been an interesting, you [23:58] know, time for you where your army [24:00] service was going back and forth between [24:01] the Yeshiva, the seminary, and and the [24:04] army. And then after you're out of the [24:06] army and you're in and you're in [24:07] university, a war breaks out and then [24:10] you're going back and forth from the [24:11] battlefield to the classroom and, you [24:13] know, writing papers and going back to [24:14] the battlefield. So, it's been this [24:16] oscillation, this back and forth between [24:20] spiritual, you know, development and [24:22] introspection about these big ideas and [24:25] being involved in the military. That's [24:26] really what your life has been for the [24:28] last, you know, [24:29] >> [laughter] [24:30] >> for the last 6 7 years. It's been It's [24:31] been like that for a long time. Can you [24:33] talk about this [24:35] about about that exact issue about how a [24:38] long about how this journey, this [24:41] intellectual journey in trying to [24:42] understand and faith and making it all [24:44] fit together in the in the theology, how [24:46] did that inform what took place on the [24:49] battlefield? How was it informed by what [24:51] took place on the battlefield for you? [24:53] >> Mhm. [24:54] So, before I answer that, I'm just going [24:56] to frame what you said about going back [24:58] and forth to the battlefield and [25:00] studying. [25:02] In Israel, everyone joins the military. [25:04] Right, we're a small country, we need a [25:05] lot of soldiers, everyone joins the [25:07] military. And there is a program where [25:10] instead of going straight off to the [25:12] army, you go to seminary and then [25:15] after a couple years in the seminary, [25:17] you go to the army and then you return [25:20] to the seminary. So, that's the first [25:21] sort of back and forth. And then the [25:24] second back back and forth is now [25:27] during the war, I was in university when [25:31] the war started. And because I'm in [25:33] reserves, so I wasn't just going to be [25:37] in the field the whole war through. So, [25:39] I would be in the field for 2 or 3 [25:41] months and then I'd go back to [25:43] university for 2 or 3 months and try to [25:45] catch up and do as much as I could and [25:47] then head back out into the field. So, [25:50] basically, I said that I've spent the [25:52] past 10 years or so working on these [25:54] issues, but it's been [25:56] really only half the time because I've [25:58] it's always been back and forth with the [26:00] military. [26:01] And I think the most [26:03] impactful thing about that is that [26:06] the military [26:08] is a very intense experience. That's not [26:11] surprising, that goes without saying, [26:13] but it hits especially hard when we want [26:16] to take these big issues in our lives [26:18] seriously. We want to say, "Okay, what [26:21] am I about? And what is my faith about? [26:23] And what's important to me?" [26:25] And [26:26] when we have so much going on and it and [26:29] it doesn't have to be war, it can be [26:30] anything, but especially war and [26:31] especially the military, [26:33] we get busy very fast and it's very hard [26:36] to find time for those things. [26:38] On the other hand, it really hammers [26:40] home and this is much more powerful in [26:43] my experience, really hammers home how [26:44] high the stakes are. [26:46] That if we don't know where we stand and [26:48] we don't take our lives seriously, [26:50] then it matters a lot. Right, In war the [26:53] stakes are high and we really have to [26:56] know where we stand. And so these issues [26:59] of what it means to me to be a man of [27:01] faith or what it means to me to be a Jew [27:03] or what it means to me to connect to [27:04] Christians, those aren't academic. [27:07] That doesn't end in the study hall where [27:09] I'm sitting in an air-conditioned room [27:11] and studying it because I'm constantly [27:13] going out into the world and doing [27:15] high-stakes stuff and then heading back [27:17] into the study hall and out and in and [27:19] out and in. [27:20] And it really drives home that I have to [27:23] come to an understanding [27:25] of these issues. [27:28] >> You you said earlier that you've really [27:31] discovered or come to appreciate how [27:34] much uh [27:36] we have in common, Christians and Jews. [27:38] And obviously, that's not true for all [27:40] Christians and all Jews. I I get there's [27:42] a spectrum of belief, a spectrum of [27:44] practice, all of that. But uh Pesach and [27:47] I have said over the years that, you [27:50] know, there's so much that the that you [27:53] you put it as the bridge is not that [27:55] you're not crossing this huge chasm. [27:57] It's it's really close. What were some [27:59] of those things that you felt were [28:01] similar? What were some of those items [28:03] on your list that you went, "Oh, wow, [28:04] that we're we're pretty close on that." [28:10] >> So I'm sure there's a lot. If we tried [28:12] to run through it, we'd come up with [28:13] many things. I think the most important [28:16] thing though, that's sort of a [28:17] prerequisite to all the other things [28:19] that we have in common, is [28:22] understanding that we're not competing. [28:25] And for me, that was a big realization [28:27] that I came to because especially when I [28:30] was young and I was trying to figure out [28:32] what my religion was about. So there's [28:34] sort of this attitude of if I'm right, [28:37] then whoever doesn't agree with me is [28:38] wrong. [28:40] And [28:41] as my faith matured, I would say, and as [28:43] I came to a broader understanding, I [28:45] realized that I'm not competing with [28:49] anyone else. That doesn't mean that [28:51] anything goes, but it but what it means [28:54] is that [28:55] I don't have to [28:57] shun anyone who isn't exactly in my [29:01] square. [29:02] And when you meet people from across the [29:05] aisle or who are slightly different, who [29:08] also have that attitude, that's really [29:10] what allows the similarities to [29:12] flourish. So, that isn't a similarity [29:15] per se, but it's really what has to be [29:17] in place for any of this to happen. That [29:20] we understand that we're not trying to [29:23] We're not saying, "You're wrong, but [29:26] I'll play along and just try to make the [29:28] most of it." And I'm also not saying, [29:30] "You're wrong and I'll try to fix you." [29:32] But really realizing to the degree to [29:36] which we're really on the same team. [29:40] >> Yeah, I've often said to [29:43] That it's really good. I often say to uh [29:45] friends [29:46] across the aisle or as I've [29:48] built relationships with Jews, honestly, [29:50] I I didn't enter a synagogue for the [29:53] first time until after I went to Israel. [29:55] I'd never been to a Shabbat dinner. I [29:56] had no context for any of this space [29:59] that I've been occupying the last 10 [30:01] years. And now I'm going to move my four [30:03] kids, my wife, and we're going to live [30:05] in Israel. And we count it such a huge [30:07] privilege. Everybody's excited, [30:09] anticipatory. And I'm sure it's going to [30:11] have its hurdles and it's going to have [30:12] its moments and there's going to be [30:14] misunderstandings and all of that. But [30:16] at the end of the day, [30:18] I just need [30:19] I need Pesach to be Pesach. I don't need [30:22] him to be [30:23] anything other than than that. And he [30:26] asked me to be Doug, and I tell him all [30:27] the time, I'm a better Christian and a [30:29] better pastor because of my relationship [30:31] with with him. [30:32] I've learned so much about my own faith. [30:34] And I think when you approach it as the [30:37] it's me versus me, you know, I'm trying [30:40] to figure my journey out, my lane out. I [30:43] have to make decisions for my household. [30:46] It becomes It becomes a different game. [30:48] When I When I'm trying to fix everybody [30:50] else, or I'm trying to navigate [30:52] everybody else, but if I'm just worried [30:53] about, "Hey, I got to take care of me, [30:55] and I get to be as authentic as I can [30:57] be." And in these relationships, these [30:59] beautiful things happen because then you [31:01] can be You can be friends with anybody [31:03] at that point. You can, you know, cross [31:04] the aisle. You can have differing [31:06] opinions, and and there's a richness [31:08] that comes to life that you don't get [31:10] when you're just in an echo chamber in a [31:12] bubble. [31:13] >> Exactly. [31:15] >> Yeah, you know, [31:16] Mayor, [31:17] when we were when we were in in the US, [31:21] and I encourage everyone again, if you [31:22] haven't seen it yet, to [31:24] you know, to go over to the YouTube [31:26] channel and and watch Mayor's speech in [31:28] at the church in Harker Heights. It's [31:30] really fantastic. And you know, and and [31:33] for someone who hasn't done a lot of [31:35] public speaking yet, it was really [31:36] outstanding, really, you know, very very [31:38] polished. [31:39] >> He has some similarities to someone on [31:42] this podcast. So, there were a few [31:43] mannerisms Oh, he did He did one or two [31:46] mannerisms I went, "Oh, Pesach does [31:48] that." I was like, "That's That's really [31:49] good." [laughter] [31:51] >> We must be related. [31:52] >> Yes. [31:55] >> Well, Mayor, I I I want to go down, you [31:57] know, a little bit of the road that we [31:58] were talking about, and some of it came [31:59] out in your speech, and some of it came [32:01] out on the podcast. We recorded a [32:02] podcast, the Under God podcast, that is [32:05] sometimes hosted by Pastor Steven Martin [32:07] and Pastor Nate Brown, and they [32:08] Depending on who's there, Pastor Steven [32:10] was actually away while we were there, [32:12] and and Pastor Nate hosted the podcast, [32:14] and we had a fantastic discussion. [32:17] And Mayor, in that discussion, you were [32:18] talking about some of the stuff that's [32:20] gone on in the Gaza Strip. So, I want to [32:22] get off of of of of the bigger picture [32:25] things we've been talking about now, [32:26] because I think it's valuable to address [32:28] some of these things. [32:30] Um and and Pastor [32:32] And Nate asked about, you know, the [32:34] whole issue of civilian casualties and [32:37] things that you see and and uh and you [32:40] know all the charges that Israel is out [32:41] there killing you know killing children [32:44] and you made a really interesting point [32:45] just sharing your own experience about [32:48] how the tactics that Israel employs play [32:50] out and and and and what they mean [32:53] strategically. [32:54] Can you just talk about that about that [32:56] charge that Israeli soldiers are [32:57] targeting civilians? [33:00] >> Yes, so this comes up all the time and [33:04] there are a few ways of approaching it [33:06] as someone who reads that and says no [33:09] way. How do I argue with that? So one [33:12] way to argue with it and we see this [33:13] happening is to bring the numbers. [33:16] Right? If we're accused of something so [33:18] let's see how many people have been [33:20] killed when how how old were they? What [33:23] were the situations? [33:25] And [33:26] although I agree or I firmly believe [33:30] that the numbers [33:31] do affirm the Israeli side of the story [33:35] big numbers are always hard to grasp. So [33:37] when we're talking about thousands of [33:39] people tens of thousands yes, it's over [33:41] the course of years and populations of [33:43] millions. [33:45] It's just it's very hard for people to [33:47] be convinced by arguments like that. All [33:49] you need is one picture [33:51] to do away with any statistical [33:54] conversation. So even though the [33:56] statistical conversation is very [33:58] important. I'm going to set it aside [34:01] also because I don't remember the [34:02] numbers off the top of my head but it's [34:04] really because anyone wants to see the [34:06] numbers and discussions that dive deep [34:08] into that. There are other places to do [34:11] that. I would encourage people to search [34:13] online and try to find resources about [34:15] it. [34:16] But what I would want to focus on is [34:19] what I saw personally as someone on the [34:21] ground which again it's anecdotal but [34:24] that's the side where I can bring [34:27] something maybe fresh to the story other [34:29] than the stats that you can find if you [34:30] search for them. [34:32] So, [34:34] from what I saw and from what I [34:36] experienced, I would say a number of [34:38] things. [34:39] First of all, and most importantly, as [34:42] Israeli soldiers, [34:44] by large, because there are always going [34:45] to be crazy people on the fringes, but [34:47] in general, we really care about [34:51] the civilians, whether it's the [34:52] civilians in Lebanon or the civilians in [34:54] Gaza. [34:55] And we genuinely believe, again, most of [34:58] us genuinely believe that if we manage [35:02] to pull off what we have set out to do, [35:05] that their lives will be better. [35:08] We're not just fighting this war for us, [35:09] we're fighting this war for the world, I [35:12] guess you could say, but really for them [35:13] as well. We think that they'll be better [35:16] off if we win. [35:18] Now, it's tricky because they don't [35:19] think that. So, how do we convince them? [35:21] But that's a different story. We [35:23] genuinely care about them. [35:25] And when we see them [35:29] and we see what they're going through, [35:30] they're having a tough time, right? Just [35:32] because they lie all the time in the [35:34] news and they make things up, even if [35:36] they're not starving to death, it's no [35:37] fun to have a war going on. [35:39] And when you're on the ground and you [35:41] see that, you know, we weren't raised to [35:44] be happy when we see things like that. [35:46] It's supposed to be jarring, that speaks [35:47] well of us. [35:49] But that also speaks to how important [35:50] the work that we're doing is. And we [35:53] genuinely believe that we're willing to [35:54] do all that work [35:56] to better their lives and to better [35:58] ours. That's what we want. We really [36:00] care about them. [36:01] And maybe that sounds weird to some [36:03] people because in a war, you're [36:05] fighting, so why would you say you care [36:06] about the other side? But on the ground, [36:09] we actually do. [36:11] And that goes very far [36:13] because someone could say, "Okay, you're [36:16] fighting a war and you say you care, but [36:18] ultimately, [36:19] doesn't matter that you say you care [36:21] because then you go out and you fight a [36:23] war." [36:25] But the fact that we care about them [36:27] actually fundamentally changes the way [36:29] we're fighting this war. [36:32] Because anytime we [36:35] are set to enter a certain area, whether [36:38] in Lebanon or in Gaza, [36:40] we let everyone know. We send text [36:42] messages, we drop leaflets from the sky, [36:45] we have drones with loudspeakers, [36:47] anything we can do to let them know [36:49] we're coming in here. If you're not a [36:51] combatant, leave. [36:54] Now, that seem it's it's what we have to [36:58] do if we don't want the civilians to be [37:00] there, but it's important to recognize [37:03] how fundamentally this is from a [37:05] tactical standpoint. Because maybe the [37:08] number one rule of fighting a war is [37:12] preserving the element of surprise. [37:14] >> Or it's actually incredibly dangerous. [37:16] >> Yeah. So, attack the enemy when they [37:19] don't expect it, where they don't expect [37:21] it, and here we're telling the enemy [37:22] exactly where and when we're going to be [37:25] attacking. So, the civilians leave, but [37:28] the enemy digs in and he's extra ready. [37:32] And that's a price that we're willing to [37:34] pay [37:35] to protect these civilians. We're making [37:37] our tactical situation so much worse. We [37:40] could have said, "We're not willing to [37:42] pay that price. We need to preserve our [37:44] soldiers. We're not going to give up [37:46] that massive tactical advantage, and if [37:49] more civilians die, that's a shame. They [37:51] should clear out on their own." But, we [37:53] take all that time and we defer attacks [37:55] and we wait around and things drag on [37:58] and [37:59] we don't enter an area until they're [38:02] gone. So, I think that's one of maybe a [38:04] few examples, but that really hammers [38:06] home that not only do we say, "Oh, we [38:09] care about them," but our actions speak [38:12] much louder than our words do. And our [38:14] actions are significant. We give up the [38:16] element of surprise. We tell the enemy [38:18] exactly when and where we're going to [38:20] attack [38:21] so that we can preserve as many civilian [38:24] lives as possible. [38:27] >> And I've seen that repeatedly. I've had [38:29] a number of IDF soldiers over the last [38:33] several years since the war began speak [38:35] at the church and done different they've [38:38] been on this podcast and a number of [38:40] other arenas and several of them have [38:42] shown me, you know, private pictures and [38:44] different things where they took care of [38:46] children and and animals and all sorts [38:49] of compassion that they had to show on [38:52] the field where, you know what, your [38:54] adrenaline's pumping, you're in the [38:55] midst of a battle and to to turn that [38:58] switch on and off for combatant versus [39:01] non-combatant has to be incredibly [39:03] challenging, but repeatedly uh [39:06] across [39:08] ages, genders, all of that. I've I've [39:11] talked to all sorts of folks serving in [39:13] the IDF. That has been the repeated [39:15] message of all of them and they've shown [39:17] numerous pictures and videos and I I [39:19] commend you and all the IDF soldiers for [39:22] having to fight in those conditions cuz [39:24] your enemy does not want to fight [39:26] fairly. They they want to fight in the [39:28] midst of civilians and they want [39:30] civilian casualties, which is why [39:32] you're in the predicament that you're [39:34] in. [39:34] >> Yeah, I just want to hammer home part of [39:37] what I said because as I mentioned, [39:40] we're not talking about the big stats [39:41] here and if I feel bad about doing [39:45] something or me and my friends have [39:47] compassion for the Gazans, well, okay, [39:50] that's anecdotal, but here what we [39:52] talked about about giving up the element [39:53] of surprise, that's official government [39:56] and military policy. [39:58] That's how the Israeli government and [40:00] the Israeli military military run. So, [40:02] that's not anecdotal anymore. [40:04] Now, again, there are isolated [40:06] incidents, all sorts of things happen, [40:07] it's a war. If we had [40:10] 10 hours of podcast, we could break [40:11] everything down, but really it's [40:13] important to realize that as policy, we [40:16] give up a lot to [40:19] save lives on the other side. [40:23] >> Yeah, that's such an important point. [40:24] You know, I I [40:26] I wanted you to repeat that because when [40:28] I heard you say it the other day, and I [40:29] watched this war as closely as anybody, [40:31] I'd never even thought about that [40:32] obvious point that giving up the element [40:34] of surprise is such a [40:38] it seems it seems absolutely [40:39] self-defeating. [40:41] And the everyone knows that Israel does [40:44] drop the leaflets and and make the cell [40:46] phone calls and and make the [40:47] announcements of where they're striking, [40:49] and that should be just number one on [40:51] people's list that it's not only and [40:53] everyone knows that they do that. People [40:54] talk about the fact that they do that as [40:56] though it's some humanitarian act, but [40:57] it goes beyond being humanitarian act, [40:59] it's also self-defeating from a [41:01] technical perspective. And that makes it [41:03] all the more remarkable, and I think we [41:05] I think everyone listening should add [41:07] that to your add that to your bag of [41:09] tools for standing around the water [41:11] cooler at work next time someone says [41:13] that Israel's committing genocide, make [41:15] that point that they actually harm their [41:17] own they they actually harm Israel [41:19] actually takes a a a loss, [41:22] as it were, on the tactical front in [41:25] order to preserve the lives of these [41:27] citizens who, like you said, actually [41:29] are not on our side. And, you know, [41:31] let me ask you a question, Mayor. [41:33] >> But let me ask you a question. Let me [41:34] ask you a question. Please let me ask [41:36] you a question. I think it's even deeper [41:37] than that cuz it's [41:38] not just the element of surprise. I'm [41:40] sure that there are lives of soldiers [41:42] that are attached to it. It's not just a [41:44] tactical disadvantage, well, it is, but [41:47] I'm I'm sure that the enemy in its [41:50] preparation, its cost Israeli soldiers [41:54] their lives to preserve the civilians. [41:56] So, [41:57] it's a high price to pay. It's not just [41:59] a strategic disadvantage, but you're [42:01] talking about blood. And I think that I [42:04] think that's and to me, I think that's [42:06] even a stronger case in point that we're [42:09] willing to sacrifice some of our own [42:11] soldiers to preserve the life of people [42:13] that don't even like that we're there in [42:17] the first place and and don't care that [42:19] we want to preserve their own lives. [42:22] >> Mayor, yeah, I I mean, look, you know, [42:24] Doug, that that that also obviously [42:25] raises the ethical issue about should we [42:27] even be going this far [42:28] and, you know, you know, what is what is [42:31] the just thing to do? But certainly in [42:32] terms of defending against the attackers [42:35] who accuse Israel of war crimes, uh this [42:37] should certainly be an argument that's [42:39] at the top of the list. Now, Mayor, I I [42:41] I just want to [42:42] you know, [42:43] continue down this rabbit hole a little [42:44] bit, you know, you talked about thinking [42:47] about the big picture and thinking about [42:48] what we're doing in the and and how war [42:50] brings things into focus and you need to [42:51] know what you're fighting for, you need [42:53] to know what you believe in. [42:55] Take me into the room a little bit [42:56] about, you know, conversations that you [42:58] guys had when you're out there cuz I'm I [43:00] I I I imagine not everyone's done this [43:01] type of philosophical or existential [43:04] homework that you did before going in. [43:06] Uh [43:08] you know, take us behind the curtain, [43:10] behind the scenes of, you know, you [43:11] know, I'm sure guys were talking about [43:13] these issues when you're in there. [43:15] What do you think the sentiment was [43:17] among the guys about the way Israel [43:20] fights this has been fighting the war, [43:22] about these types of decisions that [43:24] Israel has made? [43:27] >> So, [43:29] the first thing I would say is the good [43:31] news is these conversations happen all [43:33] the time. [43:34] And I think that's a big sign of having [43:37] a healthy environment and also people [43:39] who these issues are important to them. [43:41] You know, in the in the military, anyone [43:44] who's been in the military, anyone who's [43:45] watched a movie about the military [43:47] knows, you do what you're told. And we [43:49] do do what we're told, but that makes it [43:52] all the more powerful if while we're [43:53] doing what we're told, we're also [43:55] raising questions and trying to figure [43:57] things out. So, these conversations [43:59] happen all the time. And I'll bring one [44:02] example to sort of tie it into a broad [44:04] issue that often gets brought up. [44:07] So, we mentioned these civilians that we [44:09] want them to clear out of areas, [44:11] and sometimes we'll take advantage of [44:14] that. If there's a pocket of population [44:17] in a certain area, we'll tell them to [44:18] leave, [44:19] and we'll have them go down a certain [44:21] path. [44:23] And as they walk that path, we'll have [44:25] people watching who can pick out [44:28] terrorists who are trying to get away. [44:31] Right? So, we're standing there. I don't [44:34] know how to recognize any terrorists. [44:35] That's not my job, but we're sort of, [44:38] you know, guarding the periphery, and we [44:40] have the special intelligence soldiers [44:44] who are there to make sure no terrorists [44:46] take advantage of this humanitarian [44:48] step. So, we see everyone walking by, [44:52] and the women and children are going [44:53] through, obviously, and also even [44:55] fighting-age males who are just [44:57] non-combatants. [44:59] And something that came up a lot with [45:02] people in my unit, or something that hit [45:05] them very hard, was seeing kids who are [45:08] the same age as their kids. [45:11] Cuz that's always very powerful. [45:13] And people saying, "Well, here I am [45:17] in Gaza fighting, [45:19] and I have a 5-year-old son at home, [45:22] and there's a 5-year-old there. If we [45:24] fast forward 20 years, are they going to [45:27] be fighting each other?" [45:29] And that's not really a philosophical [45:31] question as much as a strategic question [45:34] of Okay, how do we prevent that? [45:37] And how do we make sure that what we're [45:38] doing is solution-focused and actually [45:41] gets somewhere? [45:43] Now, we hope it'll get somewhere, and if [45:44] we got our way, yes, it would be solved, [45:48] but [45:49] maybe the biggest overarching issue is [45:52] how do we make sure [45:54] we actually [45:56] solve the problems here. So, I think [45:58] that's something that hits people very [46:00] hard again when they see [46:02] children, and then they think of the [46:04] children back home and is this just [46:06] going to be [46:08] one round after the other? Frankly, the [46:11] way it has been until now in a sense. [46:14] So, that's just one example of a very [46:16] heavy type of conversation that people [46:18] have. They see something, they say, [46:20] "Whoa." They take a step back and they [46:23] discuss it. And I think that's a very, [46:26] very [46:27] good sign of a healthy group of people [46:29] or healthy society that we discuss those [46:32] things and we say, "Okay, wait a minute. [46:33] Maybe I wasn't thinking about the [46:35] long-term solution as much. I was [46:37] thinking short-term about how do we [46:39] neutralize these threats? How do we make [46:41] things calm down?" But I see children, I [46:44] think of my children at home. [46:47] Okay, I have to be thinking more [46:48] long-term than I was. [46:50] So, [46:52] I don't have the long-term solutions, [46:54] but that's just an example of the types [46:56] of conversations that sort of sprout up [46:59] organically when we see things out [47:00] there. [47:02] >> We started this conversation talking [47:04] about your faith and [47:06] inspiration and going to churches. Uh [47:09] and so I kind of want to finish with one [47:11] kind of final question. One of the [47:12] statistics that I'm seeing kind of [47:15] across the board is a lot of young [47:17] Israelis are returning to their faith. [47:21] They seem to be getting more spiritual, [47:23] uh you know, across the board. They're [47:25] uh perhaps going and keeping Shabbat for [47:27] the first time or they're going to shul [47:29] or they're wrapping to fill in. Uh [47:32] what has been your experience on the [47:34] ground in Israel amongst your friends? [47:36] Uh are people returning to faith in God? [47:39] Are they just doing it out of tradition? [47:42] Is it genuine? What What are you seeing [47:44] on the ground? I know what the [47:45] statistics are saying. I've read the [47:47] articles, but what do you see? [47:50] >> So, what I see is [47:53] there's definitely a strengthening of [47:55] faith, but I think it's happening in a [47:57] very [47:58] maybe unique way. [48:00] Because as Jewish Zionist [48:04] people of faith [48:06] our nationhood and our religion, it's [48:10] really pretty much the same thing. We [48:12] see that when we read the Bible and the [48:13] people of Israel, it's a nation, it's a [48:15] religion, it's [48:17] all of the above. [48:18] And now that the [48:20] exiles have come together and we're in [48:22] the land of Israel, we have our own [48:23] nation, and it's the Jewish nation, [48:26] those things really fit together. [48:28] And in a war [48:31] we're not just fighting as a nation [48:33] against groups of outsiders who want to [48:35] harm us and have harmed us, we're also [48:39] fighting for our faith in a way. They [48:42] want to kill us because they view us as [48:43] infidels. [48:45] And we wouldn't have started a war to [48:47] kill people of another religion, but the [48:49] religious undercurrents are even more [48:52] than undercurrents are very strong here. [48:54] So these two sides of the Jewish people, [48:57] the nationhood and the faith [48:59] they really blend together and [49:01] especially in a time of war, everything [49:04] comes to the surface. [49:05] So I think people's connection to [49:08] I guess we could call it faith, but in [49:10] this broadest possible sense, their [49:12] connection to the land, their connection [49:14] to the nation, to the people of Israel, [49:16] to the historical developments that have [49:19] brought the Jewish people thus far, [49:21] looking forward, where do we want to be, [49:23] what's the Jewish people about? How do [49:26] we want this story to keep going? How do [49:27] we want it to end? These big picture [49:30] national religious faith-based ideas [49:34] are very, very present. And for some [49:37] people it's more faith heavy and for [49:38] some people it's more nationalism heavy. [49:41] But [49:42] it's really all the same kind of [49:44] discussion and it's [49:46] it's just been thick in the air for a [49:48] few years now, and it's very special. [49:52] >> Well, this has been an incredible [49:54] conversation. It's so nice to meet you. [49:56] God willing, I'll get to meet you in [49:57] person. Maybe we'll get to do Shabbat [49:59] together at some point. And look forward [50:02] to being with you some point in Israel, [50:04] but it's a bit of pleasure to have you [50:05] on here shoulder to shoulder today. [50:08] >> Yeah, thank you for having me. [50:09] It was great. [50:10] >> And thank And thank you for listening to [50:12] today's episode. If you enjoyed this [50:13] episode, please like, rate, share this [50:15] podcast. Come on over to Patreon, [50:17] subscribe to our Facebook page and [50:19] Facebook group. Stop by on YouTube as we [50:22] would love to connect with more and more [50:23] of our shoulder to shoulder family. [50:24] We'll see you on our next episode.
