Transcript [00:00] I'd like to help many families whose [00:02] daughters were victims of Asian [00:03] on-street grooming. [00:05] >> Their daughters were 12 [music] and [00:07] 13-year-olds, and all of those offenders [00:12] uh who were [00:14] corrupting these girls uh were from, I'm [00:16] afraid, the Pakistani community. Uh and [00:19] the reason that I believe, I may be [00:22] wrong, but I believe the reason that [00:24] neither the police nor social services [00:26] would touch these cases, I I was begging [00:29] them. I was ringing up the police [00:30] station virtually every week when I came [00:32] up to Keighley. [00:33] And I think it was they were afraid of [00:35] being called racist. [00:37] >> There is a significant [00:38] overrepresentation of Pakistani men uh [00:41] in in the on-street gang grooming, of [00:44] which the majority of the girls that are [00:46] groomed are white. So, you know, we we [00:49] as a community, if you like, have to be [00:51] honest and open about that. [00:52] >> We've all got a duty [00:54] to tackle child abuse, but the [00:56] difference is you don't [00:57] >> Your heroic heroic moderate for saying [00:59] it. I'm I'm a far-right hooligan. [01:00] >> Ann Cryer tried but failed to get her [01:02] local mosque to talk to suspects' [01:04] families. [01:05] >> I went to a friend of mine who was a [01:07] local councilor, uh and he happened to [01:09] be a Muslim, and therefore he was able [01:12] to represent me to the elders because I [01:14] thought it was a good move to try to get [01:17] those elders involved. I hoped that I [01:21] would be able to persuade the elders to [01:23] go knocking on doors and say to them, [01:25] "This behavior is un-Islamic, and I want [01:29] it to stop uh because I'm going to tell [01:31] the whole community about you and what [01:33] you're doing if you don't." Now, they [01:35] weren't prepared to do that. [01:36] >> Acknowledging the problem with the [01:38] community's response to the crimes is [01:40] one thing. Introducing a possible reason [01:42] linked to their faith is quite another. [01:44] >> There is a possibility for me that this [01:46] is to link to Islam. Maybe it's not, but [01:49] maybe it is. When you have in the Quran [01:51] >> How can you say it's linked to Islam? [01:52] On what basis? What's your evidence? [01:54] >> Okay, the Quran, you can take sexual [01:56] slaves. [01:57] >> Oh, I mean [01:57] >> You can take sexual slaves. [01:58] >> What? Whatever you [01:59] >> Right outside of your four wives. [02:01] >> That you can take non-Muslim women as [02:02] sexual slaves. [02:03] >> Okay. [02:04] >> I don't think you could find it. [02:06] >> It is nice to see you reading the [02:06] Quoran, though, I have to say. [02:08] It's obviously not making a difference, [02:09] is it? Because you're still distorting [02:11] it. [02:11] >> If Now, I'm not distorting it. I'm I'm [02:13] reading it. If you fear that you're not [02:14] dealing justly with the orphan girls, [02:16] then marry those that please you of [02:18] other women, two, three, or four. If you [02:20] fear that that will not be just, then [02:22] take what your right arm possesses, [02:24] i.e., slaves. [02:26] >> Where does it say say sexual slaves? [02:28] >> Slaves, you can take [02:29] >> No, where does it say sexual slaves? [02:30] Where does it say sexual slaves? You [02:31] don't distort it, Mr. B. [02:33] >> it's not me misrepresenting it. Maybe [02:34] it's the groomers that are [02:35] misrepresenting this. [02:36] >> Would we all agree that these girls that [02:38] have been targeted by these gangs are [02:40] slaves, being treated like slaves? Can [02:42] we agree? [02:43] >> No, I think that is a very unhelpful way [02:46] of tackling the issue. [02:47] >> They're being treated like slaves, and [02:48] we have chapters in here that tell them [02:50] it's okay to take non-Muslim women as [02:51] slaves, and to me, that needs to be [02:54] explored. If that's not right, it says [02:56] slaves. [02:56] >> Tommy, only only a few weeks ago, we saw [02:59] imams over 500 mosques [03:02] deliver a sermon against grooming. [03:04] >> That's good. [03:04] >> Okay. In 2002, when it started, when you [03:07] when you dealt that first very first [03:09] case here in Keighley, they got 4 years. [03:11] Now, they're getting life sentences. [03:13] >> Do you think that has anything to do [03:13] with the ideology behind the fact that [03:15] under Sharia, as soon as a girl starts [03:17] puberty, she's fair game, yeah? [03:19] >> No, absolutely not. [03:21] >> Yes, it is. [03:21] >> A Muslim man, for example, cannot have [03:25] sex outside of marriage, cannot marry [03:28] somebody who is not a consenting adult, [03:30] and can certainly not commit any of [03:33] these offenses. Islam is utterly utterly [03:36] against [03:37] grooming, child abuse, any form of abuse [03:40] against any individual. [03:41] >> I say that I am disappointed [03:43] >> Like Tommy, Anne thinks the Muslim [03:45] community could have done much more to [03:46] tackle the groomers. [03:50] To Mo, Tommy continually tries to [03:53] unfairly blame the religion of [music] [03:54] Islam for criminal acts. [03:56] >> Tommy's trying to create a link between [03:58] some theological aspect [music] and [04:00] linking them with pedophilia. And that's [04:03] wrong. Whatever sources he's using, [04:05] they're deeply flawed. [04:06] >> To Tommy, the sacred texts seem to [04:09] provide an excuse. [04:10] >> Everyone always wants to shut down my [04:11] points, [music] but they can't tackle [04:13] the point. It says in the Quran that you [04:15] can take non-Muslim women as slaves. [04:17] What do they do [music] with slaves? If [04:19] it's in there, we must explore that [04:20] avenue. [04:22] >> A meeting was set up in London at the [04:24] end of August with two experts on the [04:26] Quran. [04:27] This is the first time Tommy [music] [04:28] would meet somebody from Quilliam, a [04:30] counter-extremism think tank. [04:33] Dr. Usama Hasan from Quilliam is a [04:35] scientist and Islamic scholar. Whilst [04:37] historian Tom Holland has written [04:39] groundbreaking [music] books on the [04:40] birth of Islam. [04:42] Tommy used this opportunity to go [04:43] straight to his belief that it is [04:46] Islamic texts that is to blame for [04:48] [music] gang abuse of young girls. [04:50] >> It says outside of your four wives, you [04:51] can take whatever your right arm [04:52] possesses, yeah? Now, how do we [04:53] understand that? [04:54] >> That referred to slavery, which are [04:56] concubines. [04:57] >> Yeah. [04:58] >> Concubines, which included sexual [04:59] slavery. Now, that was part of ancient [05:00] culture. [05:01] >> Tommy's delighted they seem to agree [05:02] with his position. [05:03] >> All the do's and don'ts in the Quran are [05:04] all conditioned by [05:06] uh principles of justice, mercy, the [05:07] common good, public welfare, etc. And [05:10] they're all actually liable to change. [05:11] >> Islam does face a problem in that the [05:15] the holy scriptures derive from a very [05:18] remote period. The Quran, the Hadiths, [05:21] um classical jurisprudence take for [05:23] granted the existence of slavery. And [05:26] so, there's the absolutely, but there is [05:27] then the problem in [05:29] the growing in the growing in society [05:31] that takes for granted that slavery is a [05:34] wrong. [05:35] How do you then square that with the [05:37] fact that in the Bible, in the Quran, [05:39] slavery seems to be taken for granted? [05:41] Why do Why does God not issue a firm [05:43] prohibition? [05:44] >> The situation is very similar to to [05:46] women, actually. If you read the Quran [05:47] now, some of the verses relating to [05:49] women seem to discriminate against [05:51] women. Um but for that time, they were [05:54] actually were revolutionary and they [05:56] really improved women's rights. [05:57] >> Which which is [05:58] >> precisely why I think it's vital to [06:00] historicize the Quran and to work out [06:02] where these commentaries come from, to [06:04] situate them in a particular place and [06:05] time. [06:06] >> Again, Tommy feels the learned man are [06:08] expressing what he thinks, too, but Mo [06:10] doesn't. [06:11] >> What's going on here is that the the [06:13] core principles within the Quran, the [06:15] the principles of brotherhood and of [06:17] justice, [06:18] they predominate. They are eternal. [06:20] Maybe the specific things, the the [06:22] details about slavery, the um commands [06:25] within some of the Hadiths to kill [06:27] apostates, to kill homosexuals, they are [06:30] the ones that can be phased out because [06:32] humanity has moved on. But that seems to [06:33] me the way ahead for a British form of [06:36] Islam to emerge. [06:37] >> I believe that we need to reform the [06:38] reform the book. And certain verses of [06:40] hate and certain verses that glorify [06:42] murder and rape need to be taken out or [06:45] addressed or warnings put in or [06:47] something to say that this is no longer [06:49] taught in part of British Islam. [06:51] >> If one of my children [06:55] >> All right, so that was part of a clip. [06:57] I'm not sure how old it was, but on the [06:58] Tommy Robinson on the BBC and uh it's [07:00] not something I expected to see on the [07:01] BBC, but Tommy Robinson actually sitting [07:03] down, you know, and having a debate with [07:05] uh different scholars and sort of [07:07] discussing this in a more intellectual [07:08] level. So, that's not something you get [07:09] to see every day uh with Tommy Robinson. [07:12] Um and again, I think uh Tommy Robinson [07:14] is obviously bringing a a very important [07:15] point that there quite harsh uh quotes [07:19] and verses in the Quran, and I [07:21] understand that the Muslims cannot cut [07:23] it out of their text whole heart wholly, [07:25] but um [07:26] it was interesting to see Tommy's um [07:29] suggestion there and [07:30] trying to come up with a [07:32] form of Islam that is compatible with [07:34] Britain in in England is to have like [07:37] certain warnings or certain explanations [07:39] for people to understand that you don't [07:40] take this stuff literally, you don't go [07:42] uh doing these things that or uh these [07:44] actions that have been done [07:45] historically. Uh yeah, what's [07:47] interesting is that, you know, these [07:49] groups, unfortunately, these grooming [07:50] gangs uh there are many groups of those [07:53] in different cities and they have tens [07:54] of thousands of I guess followers, if [07:56] you want to call it that, or gang [07:58] members, [07:59] uh who do interpret these texts in a [08:00] very black and white way, and that's [08:02] best revealed by their actions and their [08:05] crimes, uh as with the rape gangs. So, I [08:08] just find it very interesting cuz as [08:09] with the Torah, you know, [08:11] if you ever read the biblical text for [08:13] the from the Torah's perspective, there [08:15] are also quite a few verses that are [08:16] very harsh and, you know, violent and [08:18] again, taken in the context of the time, [08:20] but it's almost never applied to [08:22] practical everyday living. You'll never [08:24] see slavery practiced anywhere in the uh [08:26] in Jewish societies today, even in the [08:29] more religious Orthodox world. You won't [08:32] see that. You know, [08:33] rape and drug use is universally seen as [08:36] abhorrent. Um you know, murder and mass [08:39] shootings are very outside of [08:40] gang-related incidents. So, I think it's [08:42] definitely saying something that if [08:44] segments of your society are seeing, you [08:46] know, high percentages of these kind of [08:47] crimes being done while the people are [08:50] almost again, I don't know how religious [08:53] these people are committing the crimes, [08:54] but if you're seeing these people are [08:55] more devout to their religion while [08:57] still committing these crimes, it does [08:59] beg to differ to question what are the [09:02] motives behind it. Um yeah, just as an [09:04] example, the when the incidents of Lev [09:06] Tahor came out in the within the Jewish [09:08] circles, uh it was a Jewish is a cult [09:11] that was like, you know, very insular [09:13] and did a lot of terrible things, and [09:15] they were like um [09:17] there was large mobilization in the [09:18] Jewish world and the Jewish communities [09:20] to get people out of there, and uh you [09:22] know, they were called out en masse as [09:24] like extremist, weird kind of cult that [09:27] were doing terrible things to the women [09:28] and children there, and people tried to [09:30] get them out uh across the board. There [09:32] was no support for that or defending [09:34] them. Um and I think it's the same thing [09:36] when people blame Israel and the Jews [09:38] for genocide. You really need to ask do [09:40] these things happen in Israel on a daily [09:41] basis? You're claiming claiming Israelis [09:43] kill on a daily basis as if it's like, [09:46] you know, nothing. It's like as if it's [09:47] like squishing a bug. But is there a [09:49] mass problem with Jews murdering people [09:51] in their own country? And I think most [09:53] of the people blaming Israel and shaming [09:54] Israel for these, you know, crimes come [09:57] from countries who have done probably a [09:59] thousand times worse in reality than [10:01] Israel has done in their imagination. [10:03] So yeah, I just wanted to leave us off [10:04] with the same time, you know, we see [10:06] that Tommy has this bravery that he [10:08] shows when he sees something wrong and [10:10] he sees that it's a great injustice [10:12] happening in his own country by people [10:14] who are not living up to the standards [10:16] that immigrants should be living up to [10:17] in their country. [10:19] Um [10:20] at the very least you should be able to [10:21] stand up for this. Take example from [10:23] Tommy Robinson. If you see, you know, we [10:24] may not have grooming gangs where we [10:26] live and all these kind of things, but [10:28] there are many things that in our [10:29] society that we can improve and we can [10:31] have a part and take a share in. Uh so [10:33] spend a few few minutes uh just thinking [10:35] about how we can lift up the people [10:37] around us, uh build a better society, [10:39] and what your role is in that larger [10:41] picture. Uh just don't be a faceless [10:43] avatar online and on YouTube. Uh be [10:46] someone who makes real changes in your [10:47] own circles. You're here with Jewish [10:49] Uncensored. Am Yisrael Chai.
