Transcript [00:00] So, earlier today I appeared on Steve [00:02] Bannon's War Room to [snorts] talk about [00:04] what's going on with Israel and Iran. [00:05] Now, I know a lot of you, every time we [00:07] post a clip of me on Bannon's War Room, [00:09] there's people who push back and say I [00:10] shouldn't go on that show. Let me make [00:12] it very clear. [00:13] Um I've been a regular guest on Steve [00:15] Bannon's show for a number of years. [00:17] Uh I am the only consistent pro-Israel [00:20] voice from Israel that appears on that [00:22] show, which means that if I don't go on [00:23] that show, that audience is not hearing [00:25] from anyone from our side. I consider it [00:27] a great responsibility and even a [00:29] privilege to go on there. And uh for all [00:31] my disagreements with Steve, uh it's a [00:33] relationship, it's a complicated [00:34] relationship, but it's a relationship [00:36] I've had for quite some time. [00:38] And uh anyway, so there are reasons that [00:39] I do go on that show. So, I I I [00:41] appreciate all the sentiment of people [00:43] telling me that I shouldn't go on there, [00:44] but uh [00:45] uh I consider it a very important part [00:47] of what I do. [00:48] In any event, on the show today, [00:52] Kurt Mills was on after me, and Steve [00:55] asked me to stick around, and then he [00:57] brought us on screen together, and there [00:59] was an exchange that I'm going to show [01:00] you where Kurt Mills made a claim about [01:03] Israel being an expansionist country [01:05] using taxpayer dollars, blah blah blah. [01:07] You'll see it. Uh and I want to talk [01:10] about this exchange, because I wasn't [01:12] really given a lot of time to respond, [01:13] and I know I I want to share with you [01:15] more of what we were actually talking [01:17] about, and what I would have said if I [01:19] was given more time. So, let's go right [01:21] to the clip. [01:23] >> a powerful country in the region. They [01:25] have nuclear weapons, hundreds of them, [01:27] which they don't concede that they do. [01:28] They can protect themselves. And the [01:30] action here, the the relevant action, is [01:33] that only one country in the Middle East [01:36] is seeking to expand with American [01:38] taxpayer dollars, and that is Israel. It [01:40] is not Iran, it is not the Gulf. [01:44] >> Rabbi Wilicki, your your thoughts. [01:48] >> Israel is not seeking to expand at all. [01:50] >> What What is going on in Lebanon? What [01:51] is going on in Lebanon? [01:52] >> Hang on. [01:53] Hang [laughter] on. [01:54] Uh Rabbi Wilicki, what what is going on [01:57] in Lebanon? [01:58] >> The greater Israel project the greater [02:00] Israel project [02:01] >> The greater Israel project is is a [02:03] figment [02:03] >> is is a figment of your imagination. The [02:06] there's no such thing as a greater [02:07] Israel project. Israel seeks to defend [02:09] its borders and every every single [02:12] citizen of Israel is unbelievable. The [02:13] only country in the world that has ever [02:15] surrendered land for peace multiple [02:17] times is now getting [02:19] accused of wanting to expand itself. [02:21] Israel wants to secure its borders. If [02:24] Hezbollah did not set up tunnels and [02:27] rocket launchers and militias along our [02:29] northern border and started shelling our [02:31] northern communities relentlessly, [02:33] Israel would never set foot in Lebanon. [02:35] And the day that Hezbollah is removed [02:37] from Lebanon, Israel will withdraw every [02:40] single boot on the ground from Lebanon. [02:42] No one in Israel has any desire to own [02:45] any piece of Lebanon or any piece of [02:46] Syria. [02:47] Frankly, we tried to give the Gaza Strip [02:50] back to Egypt when we returned the Sinai [02:52] to them. They refused to take it. [02:55] Look, Israel doesn't want to expand its [02:56] borders. Israel wants to defend its [02:58] borders. And unfortunately, when you [03:01] have these militias that set up right on [03:03] our border and start firing at our [03:04] civilians, we need to go in and do [03:06] something about it when the sovereign [03:08] nation, Lebanon in this case, does [03:10] nothing about it. There's no [03:12] Rabbi [03:13] we'll we'll get into this [03:15] daily. Hang on hang on hang on. We're [03:17] going to wrap up now. [03:20] >> Okay. [03:21] So that's the clip. [03:25] So that was Kurt Mills. So who's Kurt [03:26] Mills? Kurt Mills is the editor of the [03:28] American Conservative, which is a [03:29] publication that was founded by Pat [03:31] Buchanan [03:33] specifically to push back against [03:35] neo-conservatism. I'm going to take [03:36] these off now. I wear them when I'm [03:38] playing a video because it's makes the [03:40] sound better. [03:41] Anyway, Mills is a regular presence on [03:43] War Room [03:45] where as I said, I'm the only consistent [03:47] pro-Israel voice they ever bring in. [03:49] And I want I want about something. Kurt [03:51] Mills is not a fringe figure. [03:53] He's not stupid. He represents a very [03:55] real and growing faction in the in the [03:57] America First movement, the [03:58] anti-interventionist [04:01] right or isolationist, whatever you want [04:02] to call them. They call themselves [04:03] foreign policy realists. [04:07] Um but he's he's a he's a very important [04:09] figure in that movement. [04:11] And that movement, that part of the that [04:13] anti-interventionist part of the America [04:15] First movement is increasingly skeptical [04:17] of US support for Israel. [04:20] This is a serious ideological position. [04:22] It's held by serious people and it [04:23] deserves a serious response. [04:25] So, I'm not just here to belittle Kurt [04:28] Mills. I also want to be honest. The [04:29] exchange you just watched, I didn't [04:31] really get to finish. Steve wrapped us [04:32] up as you saw right when I was getting [04:34] to the most important part. So, that's [04:36] why I decided to make this video. [04:38] So, let's start with the expansion [04:40] charge because this is where the whole [04:41] thing really falls apart. Kurt says that [04:43] Israel's the only country in the Middle [04:44] East expanding its territory. And I [04:47] pushed back immediately because the [04:49] record on this is not ambiguous. [04:50] Israel's the only country in modern [04:52] history that has repeatedly given up [04:54] territory it won in defensive wars [04:57] in exchange for peace. [05:00] Right? I mean, think about this. The [05:02] only reason that Israel ever expanded at [05:04] all is because we were attacked. [05:06] Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition [05:08] plan in 1948, Israel would have been [05:10] within the whatever the UN had allotted [05:13] to it. [05:14] They attacked us. We won We won [05:16] territory. Same thing in '67. Same [05:18] thing. [05:19] And then we always give back land or not [05:22] give back, we give away land [05:24] in order to get peace. [05:26] We gave away the Sinai to Egypt. [05:28] We withdrew all the settlements from [05:30] Gaza, every soldier, every settlement in [05:32] 2005, every town. [05:35] Not saying this that I agree with these [05:36] decisions. I'm just saying like if you [05:38] want to argue that the state of Israel [05:39] is expansionist, it's kind of absurd. [05:44] We and we withdrew unilaterally from [05:46] Gaza in 2005. We didn't get anything in [05:48] return. In In fact, I tried to say [05:50] something on the air that I want to [05:51] flesh out here. When Israel gave the [05:53] Sinai back to Egypt, like I just [05:55] mentioned, we offered Egypt the Gaza [05:58] Strip, too, which that which was part of [06:00] what we conquered from them in 1967. [06:03] Egypt refused to take it back. They [06:04] didn't want it. [06:06] Here's the question I I always want to [06:08] ask people who make the expansionist [06:10] argument about Israel. If Israel wanted [06:11] to expand, why do we keep giving land [06:13] away? [06:14] The Sinai is enormous. It's nearly three [06:16] times the size of Israel itself. [06:19] And we gave it to Egypt. Lebanon in [06:21] 2000, we withdrew. [06:24] Because we thought it would bring us [06:25] more security. [06:27] Gaza in 2005, we withdrew. [06:30] These are not the actions of a country [06:31] with imperial ambitions. [06:34] Now, is Israel currently occupying [06:37] a piece of [06:38] a strip in southern Lebanon and [06:39] operating there? Yes. [06:41] Is there a security zone in the south of [06:43] Lebanon there and and we also have a [06:45] piece of Syria as a buffer zone there [06:47] right now? Yes. [06:50] But here's the thing, and this is what I [06:51] said on the air. If Hezbollah had not [06:53] spent 15 years or more [06:56] building tunnels, weapons, [06:59] you know, weapons depots, rocket [07:00] launchers right along our northern [07:02] border, firing them at civilians and [07:04] Israeli soldiers, [07:07] we would never have crossed the border [07:09] into Lebanon. The moment Hezbollah is [07:11] gone from southern Lebanon, Israel will [07:12] withdraw because we have zero interest [07:14] in owning any Lebanese Lebanese [07:16] territory. That's what I said on the [07:17] show. Uh but but I want to address the [07:20] phrase that Steve brought up there, the [07:21] Greater Israel project. [07:24] Cuz when Kurt or Steve or any of these [07:26] people and they use this phrase, when [07:27] they say the phrase Greater Israel [07:28] project, [07:31] I I mean, I genuinely don't know what he [07:33] means as as a a pretty well-informed [07:37] Israeli, I've never heard of it before. [07:40] And I said that on the air. I said it [07:41] also with I think in my in my previous [07:43] appearance on Bannon [07:45] this came up then also. But let me [07:47] explain. [07:48] The phrase actually has a few different [07:50] origins and they're all being blurred [07:51] together. There is a 1982 document that [07:54] was written by an Israeli journalist [07:56] named Oded Yinon, which became known as [07:59] the Yinon Plan that argued for Israeli [08:02] regional dominance through the [08:04] fragmentation of Arab states. It was [08:06] never It was never Israeli government [08:08] policy. It was just this one guy's [08:10] essay. [08:11] But the anti-Zionist circles took hold [08:14] of it and they turned it into something [08:16] bigger. They [08:17] They turned it into like this secret [08:18] plan by the Jews or by the Israelis, [08:20] even though it was just like this one [08:21] journalist writing down his idea. [08:24] But it became the intellectual [08:25] foundation for people who believe that [08:27] Israel has this secret blueprint for [08:29] regional conquest. [08:31] And then there's the theological claims [08:32] that are always [08:34] weird where people say that Jews think [08:37] that the land of Israel's from the Nile [08:39] to the Euphrates. I talked about this in [08:40] an earlier video. [08:42] The Nile to the Euphrates line is said [08:44] to Abraham by God in Genesis I think 15, [08:47] 14 or 15, somewhere up there. [08:50] Okay? [08:51] But here's the thing. The rest of the [08:53] Bible [08:54] the rest of the Bible, even like a few [08:57] chapters later [08:58] does not treat from the Nile to the [09:00] Euphrates as part of the promised land [09:02] at all. [09:03] I mean, it's obvious. When Moses is told [09:06] by God you are not allowed to enter the [09:08] land of Israel [09:10] he was standing between the Nile and the [09:12] Euphrates. He spent his whole life [09:13] pretty much between the He spent his [09:14] whole life between the Nile and the [09:16] Euphrates. [09:17] When the nation of Israel leaves Egypt [09:19] and they're in the in the Sinai desert, [09:21] are they already in the promised land? [09:22] Of course not. You know, they send the [09:23] spies in, they're still not in the land [09:25] yet. Wait, but they're between the Nile [09:26] and the Euphrates. No, the Bible does [09:28] not treat from the Nile to the Euphrates [09:30] as the promised land, as the land of [09:32] Israel. [09:33] So, this whole claim that Jews think [09:35] that from the Nile to the Euphrates is [09:37] the land of Israel and that's and that's [09:39] their agenda. It's [09:41] based on that verse. Even the Bible [09:43] doesn't treat it [09:45] as the land of Israel. Okay, that's [09:47] that. [09:49] But that's not what Stephen and Kurt [09:51] Mills mean by the Greater Israel [09:52] project. [09:54] Okay, when people say on shows like War [09:57] Room, say Greater Israel project or when [10:00] it gets mentioned in magazines like the [10:01] Jewish like the American Conservative. [10:03] Sorry. [10:04] They mean that Israel's trying to expand [10:06] its borders by taking Syria and Lebanon. [10:10] And it's not based on any Israeli [10:11] government policy. It's based on a [10:12] conspiracy theory dressed up in the [10:15] language of foreign policy. [10:18] Now the second major claim that Kurt [10:20] made is about American taxpayer dollars, [10:22] right? He's he I actually think this is [10:23] worth engaging seriously because there's [10:25] a version of this argument that is [10:27] legitimate and a version that's a smear. [10:29] Here's the legitimate version. America [10:31] gives Israel foreign aid. True. [10:33] Americans are entitled to ask whether [10:35] that's in their interest. That's a fair [10:37] debate. [10:39] That's a totally fair debate. [10:41] Then there's the smear version, which is [10:43] using the fact that America gives Israel [10:45] foreign aid to imply that Israel's an [10:46] imperial project being funded by [10:48] unsuspecting Americans who are being [10:50] manipulated into subsidizing this [10:53] expansionist program. And that framing [10:56] is not is not honest at all. Here's the [10:59] reality. [11:00] Israel is one of America's most reliable [11:02] strategic partners in the most volatile [11:04] region on Earth. The intelligence [11:06] cooperation, the technology transfer, [11:08] the shared military development, the [11:09] relationship, [11:11] it pays the US back in ways that are [11:13] real and substantial. [11:15] It's also true that [11:17] the aid that the Israel gets from the [11:19] United States is a teeny tiny fraction [11:21] even of its defense budget. It's a very [11:24] small fraction. [11:25] It's like 10% or less than 10% of the [11:27] defense budget and that's before [11:29] October 7th, it's [11:32] where and and our defense expenditure [11:34] has skyrocketed since then and we have [11:37] all this income coming into the defense [11:39] industry [11:41] that is that [11:44] it's a tiny percentage of the budget. [11:46] Okay, this concept that America is [11:48] bankrolling Israel is just absurd. [11:52] The USA to Israel is I think something [11:54] like two or 2.4% of our budget of our [11:57] national budget. [11:59] It's like half of a percent of our GDP. [12:04] US is not bankrolling Israel. And here's [12:06] something else worth noting. Prime [12:07] Minister Netanyahu has publicly stated [12:09] that Israel needs to draw down the USA [12:12] to zero. [12:14] And I'm in that camp. I've written about [12:15] that. [12:17] And that's not because we're ungrateful, [12:18] it's because Israel is economically [12:20] capable of standing on its own two feet [12:22] and the aid has too often been used as [12:24] leverage to constrain Israeli [12:25] decision-making. Israel wants [12:26] independence. [12:28] We're not We're not like bleeding [12:30] America dry and sucking their money and [12:32] using it for our imperial project. Okay, [12:34] we don't even want the money anymore. [12:35] All the aid to Israel has always come as [12:38] a way of inducing Israel to make [12:40] concessions on its own security. That's [12:42] the history of it. I once made a video [12:43] about this. I should probably do one [12:44] again. [12:46] So, why does this exchange matter? Why [12:48] did I share this to you? Not it wasn't [12:49] just to promote my appearance on War [12:51] Room. [12:52] What happened on that show today is [12:54] happening everywhere in conservative [12:56] media and in conservative conversations [12:58] right now. [12:59] There's a realignment happening on the [13:01] American right and Israel is in the [13:03] middle of it. And the Kurt Mills wing of [13:04] conservatism, the America First [13:07] anti-interventionist tradition that goes [13:09] back to Pat Buchanan [13:11] is gaining a lot of ground. [13:14] And they're going to keep showing up on [13:15] shows like War Room and making these [13:16] arguments. And when they do, they need [13:19] to be answered clearly and calmly and [13:21] with facts. [13:23] Okay, we can't just shout them down or [13:24] dismiss. We have to answer them. [13:26] And that's what I try to do Every time [13:28] I'm on that show, and that's what I'm [13:29] going to keep doing. [13:32] Look, [13:34] Kurt Mills is a smart guy. I think he [13:36] believes what he's saying. [13:39] I think there are real concerns [13:41] uh that you could have as an American if [13:43] you don't want your taxpayer dollars [13:45] going to another country. I get that. [13:48] And you could be concerned about mission [13:50] creep in the Middle East and about [13:52] uh you know, [13:54] how decisions are made about where the [13:56] US gets involved militarily. These are [13:59] all legitimate debates. It's fine. And [14:01] the pro-Israel community also has to [14:03] like not be Don't feel so threatened by [14:05] these conversations. [14:09] But the answer to the to any legitimate [14:11] concerns like that is not to traffic in [14:14] conspiracy theories about Israel having [14:16] some secret imperial designs and wants [14:19] to expand its territory and take land [14:22] from you know, and just you know, the [14:24] expansiveness [14:26] you know, greater Israel project. That's [14:27] not the answer. [14:29] It's not analysis. It's a conspiracy [14:31] theory. [14:32] Israel wants secure borders. Israel [14:35] wants quiet neighbors that it can do [14:36] business with. [14:38] Israel has proven repeatedly and at [14:40] great cost that it's willing to give up [14:42] land [14:44] if it could actually get peace. [14:46] I don't think it ever does, but that's a [14:48] different conversation. [14:50] But if we're talking about Israeli [14:52] public policy [14:53] or the or the policy of the Israeli [14:55] people, [14:57] saying that Israel is expansionist is is [15:00] is ridiculous. [15:03] I mean, every time we give up land, we [15:04] end up getting rockets in return. So, [15:07] there's that, but that's not the topic [15:09] here. [15:11] Anyway, [15:13] now you hear what I wish I had added if [15:15] I had another 5 minutes to talk on War [15:17] Room today. If you found this useful, [15:19] please like and share and subscribe and [15:21] all that stuff. [15:22] And um drop a comment. Let me know what [15:24] you think. [15:25] God bless.
