Transcript [00:00] Ben Shapiro and his genius debates Gaza [00:03] and Hamas. Let's take a look at the goat [00:06] himself and what he has to say. [00:07] >> Um, my name is Molly. I just wanted to [00:09] ask you a couple questions. Um, I [00:11] believe in doing as you said, having [00:13] courage and as you said, having courage [00:15] has sometimes political costs and all [00:17] that. Um, [00:18] So, what I'd like to ask you is, um, as [00:21] you're well aware, we've got a pretty [00:22] heated governor race going on right now [00:23] here in Iowa between Democrat candidate [00:26] Rob Sand and Republican candidate Zach [00:28] Lane. Um, I've actually just got two [00:30] questions. Number one, I was wondering [00:32] if you would endorse Zach Lane now in [00:34] the general election. Um, and although I [00:36] know your stance on foreign policy, um, [00:39] I was just wondering, again, I mean this [00:41] very respectfully, but just as a [00:43] question, um, how come you denied [00:46] Charlie Kirk changing his views towards [00:48] the end when there's videos out there of [00:50] him, you know, on the PBD podcast, [00:52] Patrick Bet-David podcast, towards the [00:54] end talking about, um, him starting to [00:56] have questions or oppose his stance. Um, [01:00] yeah, I was just wondering kind of what [01:02] your thoughts are on that. Essentially, [01:04] will you endorse Zach Lane now and [01:05] respectfully, um, why do you deny, um, [01:08] and just deny [01:09] >> I I Yeah, [01:10] yeah, I I got the questions. And thank [01:12] again, thank you for respectfully asking [01:14] them so we can have a conversation. Uh, [01:16] the answer to the first one is yes, of [01:17] course. I'll endorse Zach Lane over the [01:19] Democrat. [01:22] And [cheering] [01:23] as [01:24] as as for the second question, I've [01:26] actually never argued, ever, that [01:29] Charlie and I saw eye to eye in [01:30] everything with regard to Israel or that [01:31] Charlie didn't have evolving views on, [01:33] for example, America's relationship with [01:36] regard to Israel with respect to Iran. I [01:39] mean, I think that that what Charlie [01:40] said is public record and you can look [01:41] up everything that Charlie said and I [01:42] don't feel the need to characterize [01:44] Charlie's views in any way. I have my [01:45] own views. Those views predated [01:46] Charlie's, so I'm a little older than [01:47] Charlie. Uh, and so I've never felt the [01:49] necessity to to claim anything about [01:51] Charlie's views that you can't look up [01:53] yourself. [01:54] You know, the the reality, again, is [01:56] that Charlie remains through the end of [01:58] his life, and this is something that [01:59] everyone knows, widely speaking [02:01] pro-Israel. That doesn't mean that he [02:03] and I saw eye to eye on everything with [02:05] regard to American policy with regard to [02:06] Israel or Israeli policy with regard to [02:08] the Middle East. [02:09] I think all that's fair. [02:10] Charlie lived and died a pro-Israel [02:12] person. [02:13] It is also true that Charlie and I had, [02:16] I would say, substantial disagreements [02:17] about his views of what Israel should do [02:21] with regard to Iran, what America should [02:23] do with regard to Israel. The truth [02:24] actually is that I was advocating for [02:26] America and Israel to end their [02:27] memorandum of understanding with regard [02:29] to foreign aid long before Charlie was. [02:31] I've been arguing that for about 20 [02:32] years. [02:34] So, I'm I'm kind of first on that [02:35] bandwagon, but again, I I see no reason [02:37] This is one area where I just I won't do [02:39] it. I'm not going to characterize the [02:40] views of a person who's a public figure, [02:41] and you can look up all of his of his [02:43] views yourself. I feel no necessity to, [02:45] you know, recast anyone's views. Just go [02:47] look at what he had to say. [02:49] >> Today, I was coming to your [02:52] to push back just a little bit. [02:53] So, [02:55] been kind of paying attention a little [02:56] bit with the Israel issue over kind of [02:59] with the [03:00] genocide that they're basically [03:01] committing against the Palestinian [03:03] people and the Lebanese people. But, my [03:05] problem kind of with that is is when I [03:07] start to look at the reports [03:10] of the children that are dying, and I [03:12] assume that this room is a very pro-life [03:14] room. So, kind of when I look at that [03:16] and I see children under the age of [03:18] 12 dying, that's kind of a concern for [03:21] me. [03:22] So, basically kind of where I'm going at [03:24] with that, [03:25] there is a lot of reports showing that [03:27] basically with the death toll of UNICEF [03:30] basically releasing with the Israel [03:33] basically genocide against the [03:35] Palestinian people and the Lebanese [03:37] people, [03:38] um [03:39] it's about, I think, 62% [03:43] of what they have found from a 22,000 [03:47] children under the age of 17. [03:49] But, with that, 62% [03:53] of that is under the age of 12. So, is [03:58] there a question mark at the end of this [03:59] cuz you guys say yeah. [04:02] What initiates what is a citizen [04:06] to the Israeli people? So, when [04:10] if they are going to attack someone that [04:14] they might think that is Hamas, what [04:16] would consider that for someone that is [04:19] under the age of 12 perhaps? [04:21] >> Okay. So, okay. So, so number one, you [04:23] use the word genocide incorrectly there [04:25] because genocide is a word with a [04:26] definition. Genocide is the attempt to [04:28] exterminate in whole or in part [04:31] a population [04:32] on the basis of their status as a member [04:34] of the population. Had Israel wanted to [04:36] genocide the Palestinians in Gaza, it [04:38] certainly had the capacity to do so. It [04:39] had complete air superiority throughout [04:41] the Gaza Strip. It could have leveled [04:43] those buildings not while they were [04:45] empty, but with the people inside. [04:46] Instead, Israel went door to door at the [04:48] cost of literally thousands of its own [04:49] troops. I know some of those people who [04:51] have had limbs blown off going door to [04:53] door attempting to be meticulous in [04:55] their pursuit of all of this. In fact, I [04:56] was talking with a friend who lives in [04:58] Israel right now. He's a surgeon at [05:00] Shaare Zedek Hospital. And right now, [05:01] he's currently operating on a terrorist. [05:04] They brought in a terrorist who [05:05] attempted to kill some people in [05:07] Jerusalem. He was shot in the attempt, [05:09] and he's currently in a hospital in [05:10] Jerusalem being healed by my Jewish [05:12] friend doctor at Shaare Zedek Hospital. [05:14] The idea that the IDF perpetrated some [05:16] sort of genocide in Gaza belies every [05:18] fact, it belies every study ever done [05:20] with regards of war. Israel, in fact, is [05:23] fighting the most meticulous war in the [05:24] most difficult circumstances in the [05:26] history of urban combat. It comes along [05:28] with significant civilian casualties [05:30] specifically because Hamas hides behind [05:31] children. Now, here is the thing. What [05:34] would get you, seriously, what would get [05:36] you as a human to hide behind your kids? [05:39] Okay, I just wait. I have five children. [05:41] There's literally nothing on Earth. [05:42] There's not a single thing that could [05:44] ever happen on planet Earth that would [05:45] cause me in a military conflict to hide [05:49] behind my children. [05:51] It is my job to protect my children. [05:53] They are hiding behind their children [05:54] for one reason and one reason only. [05:56] Okay? There's only one reason. [05:58] And that reason is [06:00] because it's an it is an effective tool [06:03] at deterring the Israelis from killing [06:04] that many of them. [06:06] Okay, if they if if I knew if it let's [06:08] say I were terrorist and let's say that [06:10] I knew that the other side didn't care [06:11] about killing my kids, I wouldn't hide [06:12] behind my kids cuz my kids are going to [06:13] get blown away. [06:15] But if I know that if I hide behind [06:16] kids, the Israelis will not fire on me, [06:18] then maybe I hide behind kids, which is [06:20] precisely why they hid their [06:21] headquarters in a hospital. It's why [06:22] they hide their weapons in schools. It's [06:24] why they hide their weapons in mosques. [06:25] It's why they build terror tunnels below [06:27] apartment buildings. It's why they did [06:28] all of this sort of stuff. [06:30] I mean, the simple fact of the matter is [06:32] that the inapplicability of the term [06:34] genocide to the situation is not only a [06:36] vile slur against Israelis, it's a vile [06:38] slur against logic. [06:40] As far as the death toll here, [06:42] the reality is that as you say, an [06:44] enormous number of people under a [06:46] particular age have died. It's good that [06:48] you it's [06:49] Yes, but yes. Okay, the the assuming the [06:52] assuming [06:52] >> Well, [06:53] >> I assume assuming the Hamas statistics [06:55] are true because again, the Gaza [06:56] Ministry of Health is Hamas. Some of [06:57] those aren't they they basically [06:58] categorized every death in Gaza during [07:00] this period including certain natural [07:01] deaths as deaths from the war. But fine, [07:04] let's use whatever statistics are [07:05] available. [07:06] I'm glad that you broke out the stat [07:08] between below 17 and then below like [07:10] young childhood because those are not [07:11] the same thing. What you actually see [07:13] >> And when you have a child that is under [07:15] the age of 12, is that Hamas? [07:19] >> Well, I mean [07:19] >> I don't think that it is Hamas. [07:20] >> Okay, I'm not I'm not talking about the [07:22] age [07:23] >> So if you have like a child that is [07:24] maybe two or three years old, is that [07:26] Hamas who have [07:27] >> I'm [07:28] >> a sniper for the Israelis shoot them [07:30] right in the head and then they have [07:32] their brother or sister carry them back [07:34] to their family. [07:34] >> Excuse me, I'm not making I'm not making [07:36] the argument I I didn't make the [07:37] argument that a child under the age of [07:39] 12 is Hamas. I will make the argument [07:40] that there are many many people in the [07:42] Gaza Strip who are the age of 14 to 17 [07:44] who are Hamas affiliated because that [07:46] happens to be the fact. Unfortunately, [07:48] in war zones all over the world, there [07:49] are young teenagers who are armed up [07:51] with weaponry and then sent out to fight [07:52] by people who are older and and evil and [07:55] do that all the time. Again, the the [07:57] reality of war in urban combat [07:59] environments, you can ask soldiers from [08:00] America who fought in Iraq or who fought [08:02] in Afghanistan. Terrorists routinely [08:04] hide behind children. They do this [08:06] because they know what the consequences [08:08] will be. The way that it works in Israel [08:10] because I have seen the tape of drone [08:12] strikes occurring in Israel. The way [08:14] that they go through is there are four [08:15] separate levels of legal authority that [08:17] must be cleared before any drone strike [08:19] actually takes place in any place. Okay, [08:22] which means there's enormous amounts of [08:23] film of the Israelis not calling in a [08:25] drone strike when they believe that the [08:26] collateral damage is too high. [08:28] Okay, so again, no one is going to argue [08:30] that war isn't hideous and ugly and [08:32] horrifying. Every one of those deaths is [08:34] on Hamas. [08:35] >> I'm a government major and I have a [08:36] question pertaining to your thoughts on [08:37] Israel. You have long denied that what [08:39] is currently happening in Gaza could [08:40] constantly be [08:42] a genocide partially due to a lack of [08:43] intent, but I would like to ask how does [08:45] pelting five-year-old Hind Rajab with [08:47] 355 bullets while she was trapped in a [08:49] burning car surrounded by her dead [08:51] family members on the phone for [08:52] emergency services and then subsequently [08:54] killing the emergency aid workers who [08:55] came to help her not demonstrate an [08:57] intent to massacre. [08:59] >> Okay, so number one, that is a certainly [09:02] that particular situation is under heavy [09:04] dispute from the IDF. So, using the [09:06] Palestinian narrative on that without [09:07] seeing the IDF counter narrative and [09:09] again, I'm not sure that the fact [09:10] pattern has been established beyond a [09:12] reasonable doubt. I'm not sure that that [09:14] that answered the question. Beyond that, [09:16] let's assume for a second that all of [09:17] that's true. Okay, let's assume that all [09:19] of those accusations are true. To [09:20] pretend that individual war crimes, [09:22] which is what that would be, that an [09:23] individual war crime is indicative of [09:26] the entirety of a war effort would be to [09:28] ignore the entire history and context of [09:29] every war in the history of [09:30] civilization. [09:32] To pretend that no war crimes exist in [09:34] any war and that any war crime therefore [09:37] justifies a charge of genocide is [09:39] insanity. The notion that what is [09:41] happening in the Gaza Strip [09:44] >> [applause] [09:46] >> The notion that what's happening in the [09:47] Gaza Strip is a genocide is belied by [09:49] every single fact. And what I mean by [09:52] that is that in order for there to be a [09:53] genocide, you would have to, for [09:55] example, demonstrate that Israel is [09:57] attempting to exterminate an entire [09:58] population as opposed to moving gigantic [10:00] swaths of civilians from particular [10:03] areas, heavily urbanized areas that were [10:05] being used by Hamas in order to protect [10:08] themselves from Israeli retaliation. You [10:10] would have to explain why it is that [10:12] Israeli soldiers were going door-to-door [10:14] and having their limbs blown off by [10:15] literally the thousands. I know many of [10:17] them. In order to not kill Palestinian [10:19] civilians. You'd have to explain why [10:20] Israel shipped in 2 million tons of aid. [10:23] You'd have to explain why Israel gave a [10:24] million polio shots. You'd have to [10:26] explain why it is that the Palestinian [10:29] population [10:32] is effectively the same size today, [10:35] thanks to birth rate, as it was before [10:37] the Gaza War. None of that looks like a [10:39] genocide. There's literally been no war [10:42] that has been fought in an urban terrain [10:44] of this magnitude that has a better, and [10:47] there's no such thing as good, [10:47] obviously, but that that has a more [10:49] effective civilian to terrorist kill [10:52] ratio. And using using Hamas statistics. [10:55] Calling that a genocide, you have to [10:56] call literally every war that's ever [10:57] been fought a genocide. So, if you want [10:58] to do that, then you just have to get [11:00] rid of the word genocide. It doesn't [11:01] mean anything. And citing individual [11:02] instances, even if you were going to say [11:04] that the Hind al-Haddad situation went [11:05] down exactly the way Palestinians say [11:07] it, that would still not answer the [11:08] question. [11:11] >> [cheering] [11:16] >> So, this notion that Hind al-Haddad [11:18] being massacred is only a Palestinian [11:19] narrative is actually disproved. The IDF [11:21] admitted that they shot at Hind [11:22] al-Haddad and emergency aid workers even [11:24] though the PCRS and the Gaza Health [11:25] Ministry coordinated with the Israeli [11:27] military to let in passage to get rescue [11:30] to Hind al-Haddad, but they subsequently [11:31] shot her. They first said that oh, we [11:33] didn't do that. We weren't this we [11:34] weren't operating in the area. But then [11:36] video audio recording came out of her [11:37] phone call with the emergency services [11:39] and they were like, yes, we did shoot [11:40] her. We did shoot the the aid workers. [11:42] And then they were were running the [11:43] investigation. Oh, sorry. Can you please [11:44] let me finish? Okay, sorry. Um also also [11:50] >> It's Listen, IT'S IT'S FINE. [11:52] >> YOU ramble for like 5 minutes. Can you [11:53] please let me finish? Okay. So [11:58] >> It's It's Guys, guys, guys, seriously. [12:00] It's okay. Go ahead, but like come to [12:01] the [12:01] >> cuz you've said a lot of things I want [12:03] to I want to address all of them, okay? [12:04] >> Well, I would prefer you not address [12:05] like the entirety of the speech because [12:07] there are other people who want to ask [12:08] questions, but I'm happy to answer the [12:09] question. And I And again, I'm I'm [12:11] perfectly willing to acknowledge that [12:13] the IDF originally said that they [12:15] weren't in the area and then admitted [12:16] that they were in the area. [12:17] >> did they lie? Why did they lie on [12:18] multiple occasions and including the the [12:20] killing of 15 of 15 Palestinian aid [12:22] workers and also the shooting of a UN [12:24] >> okay, first of all, okay. Now now, can I [12:25] answer your question cuz you did hit a [12:26] question mark at the end of the [12:27] sentence. [12:28] >> Okay, go ahead. [12:28] >> Okay, thank you. I [laughter] appreciate [12:29] it. So, the the actual answer is that [12:31] Israel has to do a full-scale [12:32] investigation of every single one of [12:34] these incidents while Hamas simply [12:35] claims a human rights atrocity anytime [12:36] anyone gets killed. And so it takes a [12:38] lot of time for Israel to respond to [12:39] every one of these charges. [12:40] >> 88% [12:41] >> Beyond which [12:43] Israel the IDF still did not suggest the [12:45] IDF certainly did not suggest that they [12:47] purposely targeted aid workers. What [12:49] they suggested is that there was error [12:50] in the targeting of the aid workers [12:52] because it turns out that Hamas [12:53] frequently masquerades as aid workers [12:55] while pursuing terror activities. [12:57] That is just a real fact. [12:59] >> 88% of the 52 alleged war crimes into [13:02] Gaza have been investigated by Israel [13:04] have yielded no results or are stalled. [13:06] And the biggest punishment ever given to [13:08] an IDF soldier was 18 months. And in [13:10] like 2009 to 2008 or [13:13] sometime around that period. [13:14] >> So, that's that's Okay, let's assume all [13:16] that's Okay, for the sake of argument, [13:18] let's assume that everything I'm saying [13:19] is true. What is the greatest penalty [13:20] that's ever been given to say a Hamas [13:23] terrorist for openly murdering civilians [13:25] including children and then bragging [13:27] about it later. [13:31] >> According to you and the Israeli [13:33] officials, the sentence for her [13:36] >> According to the UN. [13:38] >> According to the UN there's a genocide [13:39] going on in Gaza. That is according to [13:41] the UN commission. [13:42] >> Yes, that is very true. The ICC and ICJ [13:44] would never establish a genocide. [13:45] >> Yes, they have. They have established a [13:47] genocide multiple times. [13:48] >> They haven't. They have not. [13:51] >> The UN is the most isolated of [13:53] international organizations. It is [13:54] staffed by tyrannies and dictatorships [13:56] and the most evil states on planet [13:58] Earth. And I could not give It is not [14:00] possible for me to give less of a [ __ ] [14:02] what Yemen says is a genocide in the [14:04] United Nations. [14:06] >> Wow, could not agree more with Ben [14:08] Shapiro on this one. Very poised, very [14:11] eloquent on what he has to say. We have [14:13] one more clip to look at here, but [14:15] this is true. It always comes down to [14:17] the same topic with all of these [14:19] [ __ ] [14:20] It's the women and children and women [14:22] and children and the women and the [14:23] children and the women and the children [14:25] Okay, prove it. Prove it. [14:27] Prove it. Like actually prove [14:29] Put what you're saying to practice. You [14:30] can prove that it's a genocide. How is [14:32] it a genocide? [14:36] Every single [14:37] Every single genocide you look at in the [14:39] history of planet Earth shares almost [14:41] shares almost zero with the war in Gaza. [14:44] Almost zero. [14:46] Almost zero. [14:48] And I agree with Ben Shapiro, which is [14:49] the point that I get to with a lot of [14:50] these people. It's like, I don't have a [14:51] problem with you wanting to call it a [14:52] genocide. If you want to call it a [14:54] genocide, Fuddela habibi, call it a [14:56] genocide. But [14:58] by that parameter it means every single [15:00] war that's currently going on or has [15:02] gone on in recent history or will go on [15:04] is also a genocide. As per the [15:06] characteristics, cuz they're all fought [15:08] in the same exact way. Or in in some [15:10] senses way more brutal. [15:12] So, if it's all a genocide If that's a [15:14] genocide, then it's all a genocide, [15:16] which I'll be the first to say, no [15:17] problem. Fuddela, let's do it. I don't [15:18] mind capitulating. It's a genocide. [15:21] But then why do you care so much about [15:23] this genocide? [15:25] There are black people being genocided [15:27] right now all across Africa. [15:29] Why aren't you speaking out about it? [15:31] Why do these white Palestinians who have [15:34] a colonization background, why does [15:37] their genocide matter more than the [15:38] genocide of black people? Muslims and [15:41] Christians all across Africa that are [15:42] dying by the tens of millions, way more [15:45] than any Palestinians have ever died. [15:48] Why do you care about one You're the [15:50] hypocrite. You're the racist. You're the [15:53] genocider. That's what I That's my [15:55] personal perspective. Here's another [15:57] clip of this Ben Shapiro debate. [15:59] >> How much do you think is enough? Like [16:01] you said, we probably set Iran back by a [16:04] few years, but [16:06] it seems that economic pressures and do [16:09] you [16:11] Do you think it's necessary to put boots [16:13] on the ground? [16:14] >> No, I've never made the argument that we [16:15] ought to put boots on the ground. I've [16:17] never made that argument not a single [16:18] time. What what I will say is that there [16:20] are a few options and I've spelled out [16:21] the options on my show many times that I [16:24] see for the Trump administration. Option [16:25] number one is that you basically [16:26] maintain the economic stranglehold over [16:27] Iran and then you wait for some sort of [16:29] seismic shock to topple the regime. [16:30] That's That's certainly a possibility. [16:32] The other thing which I've been [16:33] advocating since April, I think the big [16:34] mistake in the Iran war was stopping. [16:37] I think that we should not have paused. [16:38] I think the pause earned us nothing. I [16:40] think the MOU was a mistake back in [16:41] >> Wow, I could not agree more. [16:42] >> I was advocating back in April what we [16:44] actually should do is we should bomb [16:45] their oil refineries on Kharg Island, [16:47] bomb South Pars, destroy their capacity [16:49] to pump and refine and then say to the [16:52] Saudis, UAE, Bahrain and Israel, you [16:54] guys have oversight now, enjoy. [16:56] That's what I thought was the solution. [16:58] >> Yeah, um [16:59] >> [applause] [17:02] >> Had we bombed their oil fields, wouldn't [17:04] they have bombed the UAE, Saudi Arabia, [17:06] all their energy, too? [17:08] >> That was That was what they were [17:09] threatening to do and by the way, they [17:10] already have done some of that and the [17:11] answer to that is yes, that is called [17:13] the cost of war and if what it means [17:14] that Iran is unable to recover [17:16] economically, then Iran is unable to [17:18] recover economically. I was unaware that [17:19] war is a completely anodyne enterprise. [17:22] I mean, I will say that I'm kind of [17:23] astonished in a certain way by the by [17:25] the attribution of great loss to the [17:28] United States in this war given the fact [17:30] that any comparative effort by the [17:33] United States in literally all of our [17:34] history, [17:36] this amounts to a drop in the bucket in [17:38] terms of cost. Again, that's not to [17:39] pretend there's no cost, but if we're [17:40] going to pretend that the United States [17:43] expending thousands [17:45] or that the United States having higher [17:47] gas prices somehow equivalent to the [17:49] kind of sacrifices the United States has [17:50] undergone in conflicts past, that [17:52] obviously is is historically inaccurate. [17:56] >> Could not agree more. And it's a threat [17:58] It's an existential threat to the United [18:00] States of America, to soldiers of the US [18:02] who are living overseas, who are [18:04] protecting other countries overseas, [18:05] which we have agreements whether you [18:06] like it or not. We have agreements with [18:08] countries overseas we have to protect [18:09] them. Whether you like that or not, [18:10] that's the reality. So, it threatens the [18:13] lives of so many people around the [18:14] world. Threatens global freedom. You can [18:16] see this now with [ __ ] pilots [18:18] hijacking planes. The world has become [18:20] an unsafe place with an emboldened IRGC. [18:23] You have to finish the job.
