Transcript [00:00] And she's like, "People struggle with [00:01] infertility for 10 years. You're not [00:03] going to be one of those." I'm like, [00:06] "Okay." And I literally was like, "How [00:09] do you know?" We ended up going through [00:11] 11 IVF retrievalss, [00:13] >> 16 IVF transfers, and uh six [00:17] miscarriages. And here we are. [00:19] Literally, our 10year wedding [00:20] anniversary is September 8th, and we [00:23] will be sam 36 weeks pregnant on our [00:27] 10year wedding anniversary. 10 years, 11 [00:30] IVF retrievalss, 16 transfers, six [00:32] miscarriages. Tamar and Gideon wanted a [00:34] baby more than anything in the world. [00:36] And for a decade, the answer was always [00:38] no. They went through all of it in the [00:40] open and never hiding. While friends [00:42] around them were having their third, [00:44] fourth, fifth kid, and through all of [00:46] it, they held on to each other and to [00:48] Hashem. This is what it really looks [00:50] like to wait and what it looks like when [00:51] the waiting finally ends. A quick note [00:54] before we start, this conversation is [00:56] intended for adults. Tamar and Gideon [00:57] speak very openly about their [00:59] infertility journey. This episode is in [01:02] memory of Shiman David Byako Schlma and [01:04] Mimarbasakov Mosha. You will hear from [01:06] our incredible sponsors at Aime BF [01:08] Design Whis Kabad and Jaywen. Here we [01:12] go. Giddy Tamar. Thanks so much for [01:14] doing this. And at the time we're [01:16] recording this you are pregnant. [01:17] >> I'm eight months pregnant. I don't know [01:19] if I'm going to get to my ninth month. [01:21] >> We'll see. [01:22] >> Getting there soon. Vishova and I know [01:25] the time we're releasing this who have [01:27] had your baby. So [01:29] >> people watching or listening this, [01:31] they're kind of like the nies. I guess [01:33] they know more than us. [01:35] >> Yes. Mashem. Okay. So let's we're we're [01:37] going to get to, you know, all the [01:39] challenges and struggles you guys had in [01:40] the past few years. But before I'd love [01:43] to know about your childhood. Was it [01:44] more typical? Was it not typical? And [01:46] >> Yeah. So I think Guinea should go first. [01:48] Yeah. [01:49] >> A little bit more typical. Um, so grew [01:53] up in a place called Rockville, [01:54] Maryland. It's near like Silver Spring [01:56] for those who are like more familiar [01:57] with there. Uh, near Washington DC for [01:59] those who are not even familiar with [02:01] there. [laughter] [02:03] And uh, yeah, pretty typical chill um, [02:06] upbringing. I grew up in like a pretty [02:09] smallish community like uh, I was like [02:13] younger for the first eight years of my [02:15] life. My parents went to like a [02:16] conservative synagogue. who were still [02:17] like Shar Chavez. [02:19] >> And then by the time I was like in [02:22] kindergarten, I decided where I was [02:23] going to go to school. Um had very very [02:25] good family friends um who had become a [02:29] little bit more firmer at that point. [02:30] And they sent their kids to like the [02:32] local modern Orthodox school at that [02:34] time was called Hogwash, now called [02:35] Burman. And uh and basically the story [02:39] goes that um I checked out some other [02:42] schools and when I and when I checked [02:44] out another school which I'll named [02:47] um I said I don't want to go here. I [02:49] want to go to Hebrew Academy with my [02:51] friend. [laughter] [02:53] So uh so that was the start and I ended [02:54] up there and I went there for uh for 13 [02:57] years and uh after that I went to [03:00] yeshiva in Israel for a year. I went to [03:02] Toraga. Um, that's where I know your [03:05] friend Arya Ginsburg who we talked [03:07] about. Sure. [03:08] >> He was my roommate there. [03:09] >> And uh, then I went to YU for 4 years [03:11] and then I made Aliyah. And that's [03:12] that's just about me. [03:14] >> Amazing. Thank you, Kitty. [03:15] >> Okay. So, okay. I grew up very [03:19] differently. Um, I, you know, my mom, my [03:23] mom and my dad got married young. My dad [03:25] was right out of Princeton. um when my [03:28] dad uh met my mom and they got married. [03:31] I guess my my mom was finishing law [03:34] school and my dad was finishing [03:35] Princeton. Um and my dad went on to get [03:38] an MD PhD. Um and basically so we I was [03:42] born in Philly. I lived in Brooklyn and [03:45] Massachusetts for 3 years. Then I moved [03:48] to Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Um and when [03:51] we were living in Cherry Hill, New [03:52] Jersey, um my dad, um it was January [03:57] 1st. He went out for a night um to, you [04:00] know, to celebrate January, you know, [04:02] the New Year's and he came back and uh [04:05] he basically started to feel very sick. [04:09] He had 104 fever. My dad was like a top [04:12] doctor. Um again, he went to Penn, [04:14] Princeton, Harvard. He was like very [04:16] prestigious. Um but he was very very [04:18] humble. Um and uh he came back from that [04:23] night and he had 104 fever for a week. [04:26] Um and then after that week he went to a [04:28] friend of his and he's like, "Okay, I [04:30] need to get tested." Um so he got [04:32] tested. Um and like he found out that he [04:36] had uh fourth degree stomach cancer. Um [04:39] stomach cancer is [04:41] brutal. It's basically silent but [04:43] deadly. Um and [04:44] >> especially at that time, this is in [04:45] 2001. [04:46] >> Yeah. and he died um two weeks later. [04:50] Wow. [04:50] >> Um on January 25th. My birthday is [04:52] January 20th. Um but he died on January [04:55] 25th and it was really crazy. Um my [04:58] sister at the time was 10. I was eight. [05:00] Um and I have a brother who was Syria [05:02] and a half. Um and yeah, so you know [05:06] then basically my mom um was a single [05:08] mom for 4 and a half years. She ended up [05:12] uh you know bashm meeting somebody [05:15] through friends. um she got married, we [05:17] moved to West Orange, New Jersey. Um his [05:20] first wife had also passed away um also [05:23] very suddenly. Um and they had three [05:26] kids also at the time that over [05:27] overlapped. So we were six kids in the [05:30] same house um ranging from third grade I [05:33] believe to 12th grade. [05:35] >> Little like the Brady Bunch. [05:36] >> Yes, we are definitely the Brady Bunch. [05:38] Uh we my brother for the mazinka of you [05:42] know he he had the mazinka at his [05:43] wedding and it was literally the shirt [05:45] of the Brady Bunch. Um because that's [05:48] that's what we are. Everyone's been [05:49] calling us the Brady Bunch for years. [05:51] Three girls, three boys. Um yeah, I mean [05:54] it was like whatever. And then we also [05:56] had a dog and we had a cleaning lady [05:58] come over. So we're like yeah we were [06:00] literally the bra bunch. So basically so [06:03] we um my stepf family was coming from a [06:06] more religious background. Um they at [06:08] the time they were sending their boy uh [06:11] one boy to JC, one girl to Buria and the [06:14] youngest kid to a school called Sharion. [06:18] So it was more like of a almost [06:20] yeshivish like close to yeshivish [06:24] background type of um and we were coming [06:26] from Shear. So I was going I was going [06:28] to Shear it was going to camp Verma. Um [06:30] I was conservative like you know we were [06:33] our family kept shabas but we were more [06:35] conservative. Um, and we merged and [06:38] actually my sister was given a choice. [06:40] Should you go to Shakar? Should you go [06:41] to Kushner? And she picked Kushner. And [06:44] my mom said, "Okay, that's what she [06:46] wanted. And now you're all going to [06:47] Kushner." And we basically went to an [06:49] Orthodox Shoul. And in [snorts] seventh [06:52] grade, my entire life flipped on his [06:54] head like completely. [06:58] It's interesting because, you know, you [07:00] have that transition when you're 8 years [07:03] old and your father dies suddenly and [07:05] then not only that and then you're, you [07:07] know, having this [07:09] >> Brady Bunch like family and then you're [07:12] also becoming from as time is going on. [07:14] There's a lot of [07:15] >> Yeah. [07:16] >> quick changes happen. [07:16] >> It was insane. Um, I, you know, I would [07:19] say that one of the hardest things about [07:22] my childhood was that no kids could [07:24] really understand what I was going [07:26] through. I felt very like, you know, [07:28] they all kind of grew up the same way [07:30] more or less. Yeah. Obviously, they had, [07:32] you know, some stuff that they've gone [07:34] like they went through some things, but [07:36] not this. Um, also, you know, I was [07:39] diagnosed as a kid with, um, congenal [07:42] hypothyroidism. Um, which it's a disease [07:45] that basically one in four one in 4,000 [07:48] babies are diagnosed with. So, it's [07:51] pretty rare. Um, and it controls all [07:53] your hormones. So I was going to a new [07:57] place and also my hormones were you know [08:02] being you know I'm I'm run on synthetic [08:04] hormones. If I didn't have my medication [08:07] I would have I don't even know what [08:09] would have happened. I it would have [08:10] been really intense. [08:12] Um [08:14] and you know and then I'm basically [08:16] going into this uh school um and I ended [08:19] up getting diabetes also in seventh or [08:21] eighth grade. Um, and it was just like [08:23] this whole like everything just kept [08:25] changing and changing and changing. Um, [08:28] and it was yeah, it was brutal. Um, and [08:32] I definitely developed an intense [08:33] depression um, throughout you know my my [08:37] middle school high school experience. [08:39] Um, and I really did not have many [08:41] friends in high school. Um, and it was [08:44] really really hard. [08:46] >> How did you I mean there's a lot of [08:48] challenges there. Like how did you get [08:50] by all of that? Um, I definitely [08:52] struggled with suicidal thoughts when I [08:54] was younger. Um, for sure. Um, I would [08:58] have very bad separation anxiety. I [09:00] would have very bad anxiety in terms of [09:02] people leaving me, people not wanting to [09:04] be my friend anymore. It was really [09:06] hard. Um, basically from 7th grade until [09:12] the summer after 11th grade, I really [09:14] don't remember much. I slept a lot. I [09:16] was really I was really depressed. Um my [09:19] whole life changed when I went to camp [09:21] ask um after 11th grade. Um and I [09:26] basically was you know in I was becoming [09:30] from and that this is a big part of my [09:32] story. So I was becoming from and I [09:35] realized like my body is not mine. It's [09:38] hically ushered to do anything to myself [09:41] and so I can't. And then after 10th [09:45] grade, I went to Maler and I learned the [09:47] song Lanca by Eton Cats. And I kid you [09:50] not, that song was a lifecher for me [09:52] because what that song told me was my [09:55] body is not mine, my soul's not mine, [09:57] and it all belongs to Hashem. And if he [09:59] wants me alive, then I'm going to be [10:02] alive. Like meaning okay. And then the [10:05] next summer I went to camp um after 11th [10:07] grade and [gasps and sighs] I [laughter] [10:10] was it wasn't like I was doing so much [10:12] because again I was pretty like you know [10:15] careful like I I was like hello there [10:17] whatever but I um that summer I told a [10:21] friend of mine I'm like okay like I'm [10:22] going to like I'm just going to take [10:24] like extra pills or whatever and she [10:26] ended up telling um the head staff [10:31] um she told the head staff that I was [10:33] going to take you this e extra [10:35] medication. Um, and they kicked me out [10:36] of camp for 4 days. Um, and those four [10:39] days changed my entire life. Um, because [10:43] what happened was that I was able to [10:48] basically my job during the day was [10:51] amazing. I loved it. I basically was [10:53] like with all the campers. I did [10:56] academics and I was very very involved. [10:58] But at night I would go to this place [10:59] called the White House which was across [11:01] from camp the camp hask and I would just [11:04] sit in a house basically watching of [11:07] Judah's kids [11:08] >> Judah Michelle who you've had on [11:10] >> Judah Michelle and other people's kids [11:12] for like hours. Um and it was very very [11:14] lonely and so I got kicked out and I had [11:18] to think to myself like is it worth it? [11:21] Is it worth it to be in camp? Like to [11:26] lose the days for the nights, right? [11:29] like it like literally like the song um [11:33] to right like the days were amazing, the [11:36] nights were horrible, but like I had to [11:38] make the decision and I really decided [11:40] on like no like I love the days and so I [11:43] would focus on the days and it was hard [11:46] but I really like healed myself because [11:49] I was like okay like I have to start [11:52] thinking about all the positives as [11:53] opposed to the negatives. [11:55] >> Wow. And [11:56] >> yeah, [11:56] >> that's very powerful. I I didn't know [11:58] that. And thank you so much for sharing [11:59] that. [snorts] And [12:01] >> yeah. [12:01] >> Um Okay. So, I want to and maybe it'll [12:04] come back up, but I I want to transition [12:05] to you guys getting married. [12:08] >> Yeah. [12:08] >> What year did you get married? [12:09] >> Okay. So, I I'm just going to go back [12:11] for a second. Yeah, sure. [12:12] >> Um so, basically, so after, you know, [12:14] after I went to my note for high school [12:16] and then I went to Stern, we were in Wu [12:18] and Stern the same exact four years. [12:21] >> We overlapped so many friends it was [12:24] insane. [12:26] Um like literally like when we were [12:29] given kabudam for our wedding it would [12:30] be like okay one of my friends one of [12:32] your friends and they were friends with [12:33] each other and it was just like whatever [12:35] >> spouses that yeah [12:36] >> it just it didn't make sense that we [12:38] didn't know each other um and then we [12:40] basically came right after Wu and Stern [12:44] we made we made separately he came [12:47] August 17th I came September 2nd [12:49] >> this is 11 years ago in 2015 [12:51] >> yeah in 2015 right after Stern NYU like [12:54] we literally grab graduated and the next [12:56] summer I mean that in that summer we [12:59] basically like great like 2 months later [13:02] we hopped on the plane didn't know what [13:04] to expect um he had a much more clear [13:08] plan he always does seem to be you know [13:12] he seems to have much more of a clear [13:14] plan [13:14] >> yeah so [13:15] >> the only things like I'm saying I forgot [13:17] like also like earlier when we were [13:18] talking to make sure I get it get it out [13:20] there is that like my family did become [13:22] like from over time and we like started [13:25] become big founders of this small [13:26] orthodox Jewual and it was like a very [13:28] small community. So that was like the [13:30] most nuance of like the very [13:33] like very typical. [13:34] >> My story is extremely different. Um my [13:38] sister got engaged the March before I [13:41] graduated Stern and I had no plans after [13:44] Stern and I went to my mom one day and I [13:46] said to her I said you know at like [13:48] during Pesak I was like she's like maybe [13:50] you should start thinking about like [13:52] what you want to do next year. I go, [13:54] "What do you mean?" Like, "Yeah, okay, [13:56] whatever." And then I'm like, "Maybe [13:58] I'll just go to Israel for a month and [13:59] hang out." She goes, "But you don't know [14:02] how to hang out, so why would you do [14:04] that?" She's like, "You don't know how [14:05] to sit still." Um, and literally I was [14:09] like, "Okay, maybe I'll go on a [14:11] program." So, I went on a random Assad [14:13] program. Um, it was not for me at all. [14:16] It was super secular, super like not [14:19] relig. [14:22] Um, it was in Tel Aviv. I didn't know [14:24] about Kashra. I was like whatever. And [14:27] then I ended up moving 10 times that [14:29] year just wandering. [14:30] >> That's a lot of times. Yeah. I was [14:33] wandering around Israel. But we met [14:35] October 30th um that year. And that [14:38] really saved my, you know, my aliyah [14:40] story because otherwise, you know, I [14:42] don't know how I would have gone to so [14:44] many places and [snorts] didn't really [14:46] have a job. I was really wondering and I [14:48] was like, but then I met Giddy and I met [14:51] him on October 30th and I knew from the [14:54] second I laid eyes on him, I'm like, [14:57] okay, you're my husband to meet you. And [14:59] uh that was it. [15:00] >> Wow. Yeah. [15:01] >> It's so interesting cuz I I feel like [15:03] that you each have opposite experiences [15:06] like [15:06] >> Yes. tomorrow you you're like have a lot [15:09] of chaos and moving and things [15:12] happening. Giddy's more like smoother [15:14] sailing. I'm not saying you don't have [15:16] any challenges, Giddy, but [15:17] >> yeah, [15:18] >> it's maybe a yin-yang kind of [15:20] >> Well, I want to say that I think that [15:22] that is, you know, one of the things [15:24] about our fertility struggle has always [15:26] been that I felt very strongly like this [15:32] was not my first rodeo. M [15:33] >> I have gone through so much and I got [15:36] strength from my childhood. A lot of [15:38] strength um for my mom, for my stepdad, [15:40] for my for my childhood, for my family. [15:43] Um and I felt like Giddy in a lot of [15:46] ways like this was his first main rodeo [15:50] of like okay what is this like and our [15:53] fertility journey as we're going to talk [15:55] about like wasn't simple at all. And [15:58] like I always felt like okay if it was [16:01] me and and I you know my pain I could [16:03] handle it the second like it was somera [16:07] and like I I could not handle good pain. [16:10] I was so it was so distraught like I was [16:13] so distraught because I'm like he's you [16:15] know he hasn't been through enough [16:18] baggage yet to like handle all this. [16:20] >> Yeah. Not that it wasn't still [16:21] challenging for was very challenging. [16:22] >> Yeah. [16:23] >> Yeah. I think that it really like, you [16:25] know, Simasura, his birthday, like a [16:29] friend of mine went to me last year and [16:30] was like, I made this epic birthday uh [16:34] party for Giddy. I don't know if you [16:35] remember. [16:35] >> Great video that you were in, Yako. [16:37] >> Yeah. And I got like everybody in it and [16:39] it was really awesome. And she went to [16:41] me. She goes, "What are you going to do [16:42] for his 35th birthday?" Because last [16:44] year was just 34th. And I'm like, [16:47] >> Mir will have a kid and do nothing. [16:49] like, you know, it was always like [16:51] combating that pain and like trying to [16:53] combat the pain for him. And I think [16:55] that when it's just so many different, [16:58] you know, when when you've when you've [17:00] struggled so much, you're used to the [17:02] struggles, [17:03] >> right? It's such an interesting point [17:05] cuz, you know, everyone everyone's on [17:07] their own journey and every couple's on [17:08] their own journey, you know, especially [17:10] when it comes to uh, you know, fertility [17:12] challenges. But it seems in a way that [17:14] it was even harder for you for for you [17:17] yourself. Obviously, it's hard. I'm not [17:19] discounting that, but the pain of of [17:21] seeing him not being able to handle [17:24] because it's just, you know, you're [17:26] prepared for it, but like [17:27] >> Yeah. Yeah. [17:28] >> Not, you know. [17:29] >> Yeah. [17:30] >> It was also hard for me to say cuz like [17:32] obviously like the woman is going [17:33] through a lot more things physically and [17:34] it's like very difficult to see that and [17:36] like [17:37] >> Yeah. I mean, the man of I always say [17:39] the man of I mean this is a pretty small [17:41] room. The man of shots I've taken will [17:44] would for sure fit fill this entire [17:46] room. [17:47] >> Wow. [17:47] >> Yeah. Yeah. the man of shots have taken. [17:49] I mean, [17:50] >> I'm curious in your journey, at what [17:52] point did you realize that, you know, [17:54] obviously you're trying to have a baby, [17:55] but it wasn't happening. At what point [17:57] in [17:58] >> Well, you have to remember that we were [18:00] I was diagnosed with congenital [18:01] hypothyroidism when I was a kid [18:03] >> and I got diabetes when I was a kid. [18:05] >> So, I thought, you know, and they [18:07] basically said that I had PCOS when I [18:09] was a kid also. Um, so I thought, okay, [18:12] maybe I would struggle a little bit. I [18:14] still remember to this day. I kid you [18:16] not, I still remember to this day that [18:18] my mom went to me. She goes, "Maybe [18:19] you'll just take a pill and you'll get [18:21] pregnant." And I'm like, "Okay." And [18:24] she's like, "People struggle with [18:25] infertility for 10 years. You're not [18:27] going to be one of those." I'm like, [18:30] "Okay." And I literally was like, "How [18:33] do you know?" And here we are. Literally [18:36] our 10year wedding anniversary is [18:38] September 8th and we will be sasham 36 [18:41] weeks pregnant on our 10y year wedding [18:44] anniversary and uh it's been 10 years. [18:47] Yeah. [18:48] >> Yeah. us as a question. I think you were [18:49] asking about when you realized like so [18:51] for the first two years we just um we [18:53] weren't like actively trying like we [18:55] already got like Arav and we had like a [18:57] little bit like kind of like time to [18:59] adjust or we're very young [19:01] >> all of that and then after that [19:03] >> wait we were very young and we were also [19:05] adjusting to Israel. [19:06] >> Yeah. All of the above. [19:07] >> And then [19:09] >> about two years into our marriage, we uh [19:11] we went to the States for a trip. And [19:13] when we got back, it was like around the [19:14] Khag. This is in like late 2018. That's [19:18] when we started. We realized it wasn't [19:20] working [19:21] >> very early on. [19:22] >> Very early on. So we uh looked into [19:24] different options. [19:26] >> At that point, I also couldn't walk for [19:29] 3 years. M um I had very severe feet [19:32] issues which I'm shocked that this [19:34] pregnancy [19:36] I have had no feet issues. [19:38] >> Um which is very crazy because feet [19:40] issues is like one of the main symptoms [19:41] of like pregnancy. [19:43] >> Um but I had really bad feet issues. I [19:46] would go in a wheelchair for like you [19:48] know the airport. I wouldn't be able to [19:50] walk so far. [19:51] >> Um and so we're like maybe I'll take [19:53] care of my feet first. Maybe I'll figure [19:55] that out first and like we'll like kind [19:57] of like gradually get into it. And so we [19:59] gradually got into it and then we [20:01] started to go through to like a [20:03] fertility specialist. I think like maybe [20:06] that August, something like that. And by [20:08] the time that we were literally about to [20:11] start, the day that we were about to [20:13] start was um we went to the um we went [20:18] March 2020. They basically wanted to [20:20] start me on uh let [20:24] just a pill to try to get pregnant. Um, [20:26] and they gave me medication and 2 days [20:29] after I started the pill, they basically [20:32] said like the whole world shut down [20:34] because of CO and it was horrible. [20:36] Basically, we were like in Nita and the [20:38] world was shut down and we're both [20:40] extroverts and we're like, "Oh my gosh, [20:42] what in [20:42] >> there was a lot of nervousness regarding [20:44] going to the mikvah and all that." [20:46] >> Right. Right. Yeah. At that point, Yeah. [20:48] we no one no one no one knew what was [20:51] going to happen. and and like the [20:52] women's mikvah were like pretty good but [20:54] still it was like very stressful. [20:56] >> We'll be right back. But first, today's [20:57] episode is about a couple who waited and [20:59] waited for a child and I know their [21:01] story will hit home for a lot of you [21:03] because building a family should be the [21:05] happiest time of your life. But for so [21:07] many couples that journey is filled with [21:08] heartbreak, waiting and questions nobody [21:11] seems able to answer. That is why Aime [21:13] exists. the first organization in the [21:16] country dedicated to supporting couples [21:18] on the family building journey and still [21:20] leading the way today. They are a [21:22] one-stop shop for everything a couple [21:24] might need. Financial guidance, medical [21:26] direction, spiritual support, emotional [21:28] care, and mental health resources where [21:30] they've just made a serious new [21:32] investment because they know how heavy [21:34] this journey can get. Whatever you need, [21:36] wherever you are in the process, they [21:38] are here for you. Constantly adding new [21:39] services, support groups, and [21:41] communities to meet you where you are. [21:43] and something close to eight times heart [21:45] right now. A new initiative inspired by [21:47] Rahulu who knew what it meant to wait in [21:49] Daven for a child. It's a women's [21:51] initiative bringing awareness and [21:52] support to couples on this journey. You [21:54] may have already seen it in last week's [21:55] Mishbaha with much more to come. If this [21:58] is your story, don't wait to get help. [22:00] You deserve a time can help and you [22:02] don't have to walk this road alone. And [22:03] if this isn't your story, you can still [22:05] be part of someone else's. Your [22:06] financial support keeps at time there [22:08] for every couple that turns to them. You [22:10] can visit at time.org. That's a t i [22:13] m.org. And you can know that you are [22:16] never alone. And before we jump in, do [22:18] you know who you appreciate when you're [22:19] doing construction? The architect who [22:21] says you're going to want to think about [22:23] this now before the plan started, before [22:25] money got spent on something that won't [22:27] work, and before making a change becomes [22:29] a whole project of its own. BF Design is [22:32] an architecture firm that spent 25 years [22:34] developing a unique specialty, designing [22:36] for the from community. And that [22:38] experience means knowing what to ask [22:40] even when you don't know what to bring [22:42] up yourself. Think about a school with a [22:44] bustling wedding hall in the same [22:46] building. Arrival, dismissal, [22:48] deliveries, guests. Now think about a [22:49] base matters that needs to serve [22:51] different purposes throughout the day. [22:52] There's a lot that has to work together. [22:54] You want architects who have worked [22:55] through these situations before. That's [22:57] the experience BF design brings to [22:59] schools, schools, yeshivas, and simco [23:01] halls across the country. They also [23:03] design offices, retail spaces, [23:05] industrial buildings, and healthcare [23:07] facilities with attention to how your [23:08] business operates and how the design can [23:11] help maximize your return on investment. [23:13] And their residential team brings that [23:15] same understanding to your home, the [23:17] flow of a busy week, a full house for [23:18] young, what your family needs today, and [23:20] what you'll need when the children are [23:21] grown and coming back with families of [23:23] their own. Through all of it, they're [23:24] thinking about your budget, [23:26] construction, and approvals from the [23:27] start. Design for reality, and that is [23:30] their philosophy. a team of 50 plus [23:32] professionals, roughly 400 projects a [23:34] year, and 94% of their projects actually [23:36] get built. If your community or business [23:39] is planning a project anywhere in the [23:40] country, or you're planning a new [23:42] construction home, bring BFE into the [23:44] conversation early. Visit bfdesign.com [23:46] or call 732-961202. [23:51] BFE, architects of the community, [23:53] designed for reality. Now, back to my [23:56] conversation with the Benes. I'm curious [23:58] out of and I know I'm interrupting we'll [24:00] get back but like out of the past 10 [24:02] years was there I'm sure there was a lot [24:04] of hard moments. Do you do you recall [24:05] maybe like the most challenging moment [24:08] from from all of it? [24:10] >> Um [24:12] that's a very hard question because I [24:13] feel like there's so much in our journey [24:15] that I feel like we need to get through [24:17] like piece by piece. It was really all [24:20] just so challenging that like you know [24:22] whether it's the morning monitoring that [24:24] you're going to every other morning [24:27] whether you know you're I guess maybe [24:30] the most challenging was when my brother [24:32] got um told me that he was expecting um [24:35] he's 4 and a half years younger than me [24:37] and he told me [24:39] I had a 14week miscarriage um my sixth [24:43] miscarriage was a 14week miscarriage [24:45] this past summer um and he told me like [24:48] >> like a year ago from this year. [24:49] >> Yeah. And he told me like two weeks [24:50] after a miscarriage and he had to I mean [24:54] he he would he couldn't hide it from me [24:56] and he didn't want to hide it from me [24:58] and he had to tell me and I think that [24:59] was one of the hardest things. Um, and [25:02] also probably just seeing my nephews [25:03] grow up and also, you know, you you have [25:06] to remember like we lived we we live in [25:09] B Sheamesh. So we have we have friends [25:12] that, you know, we started out married [25:14] life with or they got married after us [25:17] and they already have three, four, five, [25:20] six kids and we're like, whoa. Like I [25:23] think those are like meaning it's not [25:25] necessarily the hardest parts but it's [25:27] the hardest parts of like you know [25:30] feeling like you're left behind. [25:32] >> Um as you were getting here actually I [25:35] was looking at um [25:37] >> this catalog basically I'm trying to [25:40] find [25:41] >> a bris outfit for my baby and I there [25:45] were three boys born this year in my [25:46] family. Like me and my two siblings had [25:48] boys and I want them to have matching [25:51] outfits for the Brits. And like somebody [25:53] went to me, they're like, "Why would you [25:54] want that? Don't you want your child to [25:56] be special?" And I'm like, [25:57] >> "He'll be very, very special, but also [25:59] like that was such a gruelling part of [26:03] it. Like, [26:04] >> will we have children the same age as [26:06] anybody that we know and anybody that [26:08] you know?" And that I think was for me [26:12] the hardest part. [26:13] >> Your son, we're gonna have two nephews [26:15] around the same age. So [26:17] >> yeah. [26:17] >> Wow. [26:18] >> Yeah. Yeah. And and also a niece [26:21] >> there. You know, [26:22] >> so many people, you know, obviously know [26:25] and realize that, you know, you don't [26:26] you don't, you know, have a child yet [26:28] very soon, but [26:30] >> um [26:31] >> there's people everyone means well, but [26:33] people are people. [26:36] >> I'm curious from your experience, what [26:39] are some of the dumbest things people [26:41] have said and or what's your advice for [26:43] people what not to do? [26:45] >> Yeah. what to do, etc. [26:47] >> So, I would say that the dumbest two two [26:50] dumbest things stick out to me. One was [26:52] a friend of mine who literally told me, [26:55] she goes, "Oh, just use a surrogate." [26:58] And surrogacy is fine and sacy is great [27:01] for whoever needs it. [27:04] But when you don't know the actual issue [27:06] of what your fertility journey is [27:10] saying being told, oh just use a [27:12] certificate and is is not a just like [27:14] it's a big process. And then the other [27:16] story was [27:17] >> and that's overall a whole thing about [27:18] like a simplistic understanding of how [27:20] all these things work because like [27:21] people have also said oh just like adopt [27:24] and like um someone like uh Alisa Abrams [27:28] like um who was like who did surrogacy a [27:30] few times like she was on a podcast like [27:33] it was even when Tomar had a podcast for [27:34] a little bit she was on there but she's [27:35] like it's not like a vending machine you [27:37] know and especially like in Israel um [27:41] you know like with the adoption process [27:43] like it could be like an entire year or [27:46] year and a half before you move on from [27:48] like one step to the next step. [27:51] >> So, we actually filed for adoption. [27:54] >> Um, yeah, it's we don't talk about it [27:56] much. Um, but we did file for adoption [27:58] and the I went to the hospital at 10 [28:02] weeks with this baby and uh I had a [28:06] hematoma. [28:07] I I was put on beddress and two days [28:10] later we got [28:11] >> this was all during this last year on [28:12] war also by the way. [28:13] >> Oh yeah. during the last year on war [28:15] obviously and we literally were told [28:18] that we want to move ahead with adoption [28:20] and we're like now like really but we [28:24] filed for adoption a like a year and a [28:26] half before [28:27] >> we did the last stage we had like a [28:29] meeting like we got like a piggy shop [28:30] made where it's like you have this [28:32] meeting with like a ton of people for [28:34] like 3 hours. [28:35] >> Yeah. Um, [28:36] >> but I think that, you know, going I [28:38] think it's important to like go back to [28:40] our story, right? Because there's a [28:42] whole story here that people are again [28:44] like want to know what happened. [28:46] >> Sure. [28:46] >> Um, and I think that so it was 2020, the [28:49] world shut down. I couldn't do treatment [28:52] at the time. Then I was basically told I [28:55] came back on May 26th and they basically [28:57] said to me, they said like the doctor [28:59] said to me, they said, "If you want to [29:01] have a child, you have to lose weight." [29:02] And I'm like, you were literally going [29:04] to do treatment like two months ago. [29:07] What what just happened? And they made [29:09] me wait for another year. Um, and then [29:12] they finally started me on let it [29:14] nothing. [29:16] And we basically did in Israel, there's [29:20] a policy that you have to do four IUIs. [29:23] You have to do three IUIs before you can [29:26] move on to IVF. [29:28] >> And so we did the three IUIs. They also [29:32] did nothing. Uh we actually did four. Um [29:36] and then we basically moved on to IVF [29:40] and that was a big game changer. Um [29:43] because we we switched doctors for IVF. [29:46] Um and we met with our incredible doctor [29:49] Dr. David Kulak um who is amazing. [29:54] Um, and we started the journey with him [29:56] of IVF. And little by little, like, you [30:00] know, and this is what I think is really [30:02] important to talk about is I always say [30:04] it's an a thousand piece puzzle because [30:07] every single thing that possibly like [30:11] could go wrong went wrong at some point. [30:14] And it was, [30:17] you know, we also would not be able to [30:19] be where we are today if we lived [30:22] outside of Israel. Um, and that's also a [30:25] very very important thing. [30:26] >> Why Why is that? Meaning, if you're in [30:27] America, why wouldn't [30:28] >> Okay. The same [30:29] >> in America. [30:31] Um, they are very very caught up in [30:34] their success rate. They're very they're [30:36] very caught up in their success rate. [30:38] They're very caught up in um, you know, [30:40] is is a lot of money to pay for. [30:43] >> Yeah. Basically like one round of IVF is [30:45] basically like [30:47] >> George Washington University tuition. [30:49] >> Sure. [30:49] >> Yeah. It's extremely and what I I don't [30:52] here it's not free. [30:53] >> It's free. [30:54] >> Wow. Amazing. [30:55] >> Um it's not there you have to pay some [30:57] stuff medications whatever and [30:59] >> but overall it's Yeah. So and [31:02] >> I know America's working on it. I I know [31:04] they're they're talking about it, but [31:06] but still that's [31:07] >> and more importantly because of um the [31:11] success rate, right? In America, they're [31:13] very caught up in their success rate [31:15] because they want you to use their [31:16] hospital. In Israel, they're not caught [31:19] up in their success rate because they're [31:21] like, "Okay, so we don't care if you use [31:24] our hospital or another hospital. It's [31:26] all [31:27] >> seemingly it's a little more lashma [31:28] here." You know, they just want it to [31:30] work. They don't care about the numbers. [31:31] They they want to give it for free. they [31:33] want it to happen. [31:34] >> Yeah. If if they see that you can keep [31:36] progressing, they will help you get they [31:39] will help you have two children for [31:40] free. Like not like two children for [31:44] with IVF for free. [31:46] >> Um as long as they see you progressing, [31:48] which thank God they did with me. They [31:50] just couldn't figure out what was [31:52] actually wrong. Um, and so [31:57] that was a huge perk because my doctor [31:59] was able to tell my doctor was able to [32:02] play with things and figure things out [32:04] and I became a huge advocate for myself [32:07] and I went through this and that and we [32:09] would talk together and we would be [32:10] like, well, what's the next step and how [32:12] do we solve this? Um, and we ended up [32:16] going through 11 IVF retrievalss, wow, [32:18] >> 16 IVF transfers and uh, six [32:22] miscarriages before we got to this. [32:24] >> It was a whole process. But one thing [32:25] that I think is like really important to [32:26] focus on cuz it's like especially for [32:29] like even when this podcast comes out [32:30] like when do you think you're going to [32:32] have it come out, Yakov? [32:33] >> I don't know yet. [32:34] >> Okay. Let's say in theory it comes out [32:36] around Hosanna Robin and if we're going [32:37] to be as long as it comes out before [32:39] Kanuka and in general like it's very [32:41] relevant. Chuva is always it's something [32:42] that we do all year, right? Sure. So [32:44] like something that I found very [32:46] fascinating uh for me and this is like [32:48] part of like the more like spiritual [32:50] journey for it is that I really thought [32:53] for like that first round of IVF you [32:56] know when we got pregnant like very [32:57] early on and we had a miscarriage fairly [32:59] early on as well like I thought okay [33:01] this is it like like you do IVF and then [33:03] and then you're good like statistically [33:05] you're good advant to Hashem and [33:06] everything's going to be good basically [33:08] like going completely against like the [33:10] Gumar and Brckless that's like you can't [33:11] just expect everything to go for you and [33:13] I'm like Hey, like but I still feel that [33:15] way kind of thing, you know. And I was [33:17] like so determined that like this is the [33:19] way it is, you know. And like I realized [33:22] over time that that's how I viewed like [33:24] a lot of things, you know, and even like [33:27] the way I view like you know like the [33:30] gula like kind of process. I used to [33:33] think like kind of like people might be [33:34] who are listening might be more familiar [33:35] with like Revzog and like I think [33:37] they're Rambon as well but like I think [33:38] Revzog popularized this a lot that [33:41] basically like okay now that we're like [33:42] back in Israel basically we're like [33:44] straight shot towards like towards like [33:46] Msiah coming like kind of like [33:47] indefinitely you know and like over time [33:51] I've taken more an approach that it's [33:52] like okay like I don't necessarily know [33:54] like how exactly things are going to [33:56] play out. I want to have nvua. You know, [33:58] like people might say things like, "Oh, [34:00] for sure this means this and that and [34:03] like we did this, so for sure Hashem is [34:06] telling us that." And I'm like, "I'm [34:07] sorry." Like I didn't realize you had [34:09] nva, you know? Like uh so I'm realizing [34:12] that like it's basically just being like [34:15] makish like to Hashem and just like [34:17] doing that he'll be makabel. Even even [34:19] right now with like this pregnancy, it's [34:20] like it's just machish and I'm hoping [34:22] and I just dive into him that like I [34:24] pray that he'll be Makabel and that's [34:26] and just like living in that moment [34:28] >> without like uh feeling like I know for [34:31] sure what the outcome is going to be. [34:32] There are absolutes in Judaism obviously [34:34] and in life but like um but it's not as [34:37] absolute as you think about it. And [34:38] that's what really this this taught me [34:40] from that first miscarriage. I think in [34:42] terms of Hashem in that, [clears throat] [34:44] you know, in that case, you know, there [34:47] were definitely times that I like did [34:49] things that weren't 100% hik or [34:52] whatever. And I always told myself, I'm [34:56] like, [34:58] okay, like it's literally a teenager [35:00] fighting with their parent, right? He I [35:03] love Hashem. Hashem loves me, but [35:05] sometimes we're not on the same page and [35:07] sometimes [clears throat] we're just in [35:08] a fight. And like that is okay. But like [35:11] you had that relationship with Hashem of [35:13] like but we still love each other and [35:14] we're still going to be and we're still [35:16] connected. And I think what really [35:18] helped me and I think Kitty too was like [35:21] Amal Amal has been amazing to like to us [35:26] like they're I'm so grateful to Hashem [35:30] but I I think that Amy shows me every [35:34] day like how incredible they are. [35:37] Thousands of people around the world [35:39] have been dominating for us. Um, you [35:42] know, that's why I'm like so confident [35:44] in this pregnancy. And at this point I'm [35:46] 33 weeks pregnant. But I'm saying like [35:50] knowing that we have we have the backs [35:52] of so many people like and so many to [35:54] feel and so many it just it it means [35:58] something so different like it it's not [36:00] and and our physical community also we [36:03] we have um last year I decided that I we [36:08] we always got something in terms of [36:10] teila. one year giddy gota in uh Russ [36:14] one you know a few years he got on some [36:19] last year I c I went to my friend and I [36:22] said to him I'm like okay can you please [36:24] give Giddy [36:27] I'm like I just I'm putting all my like [36:31] I'm like we need to figure this out and [36:33] uh he said like no I I asked him I said [36:37] how much does cost he goes We got you [36:41] covered. [36:41] >> Wow. [36:42] >> We kept getting outbid and they would [36:45] put more money up and 30 families ended [36:48] up chipping in from our community. Wow. [36:50] >> To buy giddy [36:52] and I really kid you not. I believe that [36:55] that is a huge reason why the baby's [36:57] being born now like now. [36:59] >> Yeah. We don't know for for sure, but we [37:01] dive in and [37:03] >> but I'm curious if if it is is it [37:05] because you think because he got like [37:06] the or is it because those 30 people [37:09] coming together and like showing Hashem [37:11] like hey [37:12] >> Hashem [37:13] >> I I think I think it's a I think it's [37:15] really like Amisel coming together. I [37:17] think I you know when when we announced [37:19] our pregnancy on Instagram somebody said [37:21] to me they said you really see the unity [37:24] of Ammy in times like this when [37:26] >> I remember seeing the poll. I was so [37:27] excited for you guys and I I mean I I I [37:29] don't know you personally but I know you [37:30] a little from social media and like yeah [37:32] the world was you know [37:34] >> yeah I mean that post got over 15,000 [37:37] likes um and you know so many people are [37:41] sending gifts um a follower sent me a [37:44] pack and play this week and it's like [37:46] you know big gifts I'm not even saying [37:48] small gifts I'm saying every gift is so [37:50] appreciative but like [37:52] >> followers I both of my strollers I'm [37:54] getting because of followers [37:56] >> like You know people are just really [37:58] like you you see the beauty in Amish [38:01] when you go through an experience like [38:03] this and [38:04] >> you see how giving people are [38:06] >> you know it's very special is like I [38:08] heard this idea that Hashem always [38:11] answers every it's always a yes or no [38:14] and sometimes you know you know we know [38:17] recently things that are happening but [38:19] like also people who are adopting for [38:21] you or you do for yourselves in year [38:23] three or four [38:25] >> that was part of that you know it's just [38:27] this giant avalanche. What's the [38:29] craziest thing to me and I think that [38:31] this is the most meaningful to Filo in [38:34] the world is I have children like there [38:38] are children in our community who [38:41] literally have grown up domining for us [38:44] >> since they can speak and I it's amazing [38:48] to see how excited that they are like [38:51] it's not just the adults right we you [38:53] know one of the things that's very very [38:55] important to getting my like our story [38:58] is that we lived in. We've lived in [39:01] Nurabesh for 9 years and we never were [39:05] silent. We were never like, you know, [39:08] oh, we're not going to we're just going [39:10] to hide at home. We always went out. We [39:12] always engaged with our community. We [39:14] always hosted and our community has been [39:17] so receptive because of that and has [39:20] given so much back to us, even the [39:22] children. And it's amazing to see how [39:24] excited so many children are for us. And [39:29] it's like, you know, and it's like [39:31] they're like, "Oh, it's like my cousin [39:33] being born." You know, like [39:36] probably I mean like hundreds of [39:39] children are just like waiting for this. [39:41] And you know, I think that seeing Hashem [39:43] answer our Tilo will hashem do something [39:47] for their muna. And that's that's my [39:49] hope. [39:50] >> That's really nice. [39:52] So, yeah. So, what are we saying? [39:54] >> So, she wants to go back to like more of [39:55] the diagnosis. [39:56] >> Yeah, I think I think we need to go back [39:57] to more of the diagnosis because I think [39:59] that it's important to talk about um [40:02] >> perhaps the most powerful moment is [40:03] coming up. But first, you know what sold [40:05] me on wheels to lease? I mean, I I've [40:06] been sold, but literally this week, my [40:08] wife wanted brown seats in our minivan. [40:10] She didn't want black or gray. She [40:12] wanted brown. Okay, it happened to look [40:14] nice, but pretty random. I figured that [40:16] was going to be a whole thing. Okay, so [40:17] I called wheels to lease. I told them [40:19] what she wanted and they got to it, but [40:22] it wasn't so simple. There was no there [40:24] was no minivan. She wanted this specific [40:25] outside color. They It wasn't available. [40:28] And so I was like, "Let me call you back [40:30] in a few hours." He did. He said he [40:32] found it. It was in Florida. They got it [40:33] shipped out. They worked it out for us. [40:36] And of course, they gave us the best [40:37] price you're paying in the 500s for this [40:39] awesome, incredible Honda Odys. It's [40:41] amazing. Okay, we're very happy. And [40:42] that's what they do. You tell them the [40:44] car you want down to the details that [40:45] matters to you and they go find it. then [40:47] they have been doing this since 1989. So [40:49] they know where the cars are and they [40:50] know the market and they know how to [40:52] help you and hook you up. So if you need [40:54] a new lease or you want a new car, [40:57] whatever it is, wheels to lease is the [40:58] place to go. You can call Saul at [41:00] 718871-8715, [41:02] send the email at inspirewelstolease.com [41:05] or go to wheelstole.com/inspire. [41:07] Tell them inspiration sent you. And of [41:09] course click on the link down below and [41:11] you can even WhatsApp them. Right now, [41:14] thousands of families in Israel are [41:15] wondering how they're going to put food [41:17] on the table for the second days of [41:19] sukus. And what are they going to do for [41:21] Simco's Torah? That's where Kabad comes [41:23] in. For generations, they've been making [41:25] sure that the neediest people in Israel [41:27] have food, shelter, and the basic [41:29] necessities so families can live with [41:31] dignity. And you can be a part of it in [41:33] seconds. The Kabad Pushk app makes [41:35] giving saddaka every day incredibly [41:37] simple. Download it once, set your [41:39] reminder, and wherever you are, you will [41:41] always have a pushka with you. Start [41:42] with just a dollar a day. It's not about [41:44] how much you give. It's about building [41:46] that muscle of giving. And they make it [41:48] so easy. Before Yom Kipper, I'm like, [41:50] "Wait, Kaparos, they had an option for [41:52] that. Take out your phone, download the [41:54] Kabad Push app and start giving today. [41:56] Go to pushapp.cc/inspo." [41:58] Of course, click the link in the show [41:59] notes. And I'm telling you, I get texts [42:01] all day and it gives me such nas. Hey, [42:04] what's that app again? pushapp.cc/inspo [42:07] and start giving to the people who [42:08] really need it. And if there's one thing [42:10] today's episode proves, it's what two [42:13] people can get through together. Tamar [42:15] and Gideon waited 10 years for their [42:16] baby. 10 years. And they did it side by [42:19] side. Oh, a spoiler alert. I meant what [42:21] we did this episode while they were, you [42:23] know, expecting the baby soon. Baram [42:25] since this aired a few days later, they [42:27] actually had their baby, but that's a [42:29] little of a spoiler. But this is the [42:30] kind of marriage that doesn't happen by [42:32] accident. It starts with two people who [42:33] found each other and decided to build [42:35] something together. And that's what I [42:36] love about JW. Jaywood has been helping [42:38] Jewish singles find each other for over [42:41] 25 years with more than 4,000 verified [42:43] marriages. And here's a [clears throat] [42:44] statistic that says everything. More [42:46] than 77% of these marriages are between [42:48] people from different cities or even [42:50] different countries because your best [42:52] shirt might not live down the block from [42:53] you. They might not be on your usual [42:55] circle. You might never meet them unless [42:57] you're willing to look beyond what's [42:59] familiar. JW has tens of thousands of [43:01] serious marriage-minded singles from [43:03] across the Jewish world. men and women [43:06] from to modern Orthodox, from New York [43:07] to Schlam and everywhere in between. [43:10] Every great marriage starts with a first [43:12] step and maybe yours starts today. Maybe [43:14] this is the that you need to put in. Go [43:17] take that step. Find your chosen one on [43:19] jwed.com. But I'm not the [43:20] [clears throat] kind to really find it [43:21] on an app. Maybe. But you know who said [43:23] that also? The couple that got engaged [43:24] two months ago. You know who also said [43:25] that? The person who's like, I don't [43:27] really like going on the internet to [43:28] find my spouse, but so many people do. [43:30] And it's actually becoming more and more [43:32] popular every single day. So take that [43:34] leap and hopefully we will be able to [43:36] dance together by your awesome wedding. [43:38] jwed.com. [43:40] Now back to this week's episode. [43:42] >> We did our first round of IVF. Um I [43:45] think we might have gotten pregnant from [43:47] that room. [43:48] >> Oh, we did. I just talking about [43:50] >> Yeah, the first round of IVF. We got [43:51] pregnant and then we miscarried um at 6 [43:53] weeks. Um and [43:56] >> what's what's that feeling like that [43:58] when you realized that you [44:00] >> It was like oh shoot. But it was oh [44:02] shoot. But it was also like, okay, we'll [44:04] try again. [44:05] >> Right. Like, like there's some like, [44:06] hey, we we got this far. [44:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. It was like, okay, whatever. [44:10] One, one time, okay, it happens. [44:12] Miscarriage happens. Um, I, you know, [44:14] >> like I said, I was like very determined. [44:16] Like I very much thought like, okay, [44:18] this was going to be it. And like that [44:19] was like a big left down, but like, [44:21] okay, we're going to try again. [44:22] >> Yeah. It was not, you know, immediately [44:25] I'm like I called my doctor. I'm like, [44:26] okay, what's the next step? M [44:28] >> um and we basically decided to continue [44:31] with the next you know we went on with [44:33] the next step and we got pregnant and [44:36] then we I don't know exactly when we got [44:38] pregnant again but basically we kept [44:40] getting pregnant and then losing the [44:42] pregnancy and we didn't understand what [44:44] was happening. Um, and another big [44:47] factor of it all was not that we would [44:50] just lose the pregnancy, [44:52] but sometimes we were scheduled to have [44:54] a transfer and there would be no embryos [44:57] left. Meaning they would get six [45:00] embryos. [45:01] >> Mhm. [45:01] >> Then either you can have them you can do [45:04] like a frozen transfer or a fresh [45:07] transfer. If it's a frozen transfer then [45:09] they're then they're frozen and then we [45:10] unfreeze and they have to be thought [45:11] out. If it's fresh then like you can [45:13] wait a certain amount of days and then [45:14] you do it like much quicker. [45:16] >> Mhm. [45:16] >> And we did and we did both. [45:18] >> Yeah. So we did both many times. We were [45:20] like okay what you know we would you [45:23] know we would transfer and sometimes the [45:25] embryo would die in me and sometimes the [45:27] embryo would die in the petri dish and [45:30] we kept being like what is going on? We [45:32] went to two hospitals. We went to [45:34] Herzela Medical Center and we went to [45:35] Laniato and each one of them had [45:37] benefits. So, we went to I think it was [45:42] Liato that we found out about that the [45:44] embryos were combusting at at day three. [45:48] >> Yeah, that was [45:48] >> um I'm pretty sure it was because it was [45:50] they were being watched so carefully. I [45:53] I maybe it was Herzel Medical Center. I [45:55] don't I don't remember, but it was one [45:57] of these hospitals and they were like, [45:59] "Your embryos keep combusting at day [46:01] three." And that's why we didn't have [46:03] any embryos to transfer [46:05] >> in the right like we didn't have we [46:07] would get we would literally get six [46:09] embryos. [46:10] >> I'm so curious. So how how do you [46:12] resolve this? [46:13] >> Okay. And it took a while. [46:15] >> We were talking to good friends of ours [46:18] um who um they had one child and then [46:21] they struggled with what's known as as [46:22] secondary interfertility. [46:24] >> I mean we were we were at our end. We're [46:26] like we're about to give up. We don't [46:27] know what to do. [46:29] basically like um one of the doctors we [46:33] visited right actually mamish like hours [46:36] before the war broke out actually. It's [46:38] just crazy like how everything time [46:39] timing works out. But basically this [46:40] this doctor basically said okay like um [46:43] you might need to get like a certain [46:45] surgery and uh basically during like [46:48] like Hakos like on the night of like of [46:50] of Slas Toro like Tamar is talking to [46:52] this friend of ours who had really [46:54] really gone through the ringer with [46:55] secondary infertility like even with [46:57] their first kid like they they like [46:58] didn't know if they were going to do it [46:59] and they're like this is a ridiculous [47:01] diagnosis. We went to this organization. [47:05] They were so helpful and telling us like [47:07] everything that that we needed to do. [47:09] >> Well, we should give the organization a [47:10] massive shout out. [47:11] >> We were going to [47:13] >> We're going to give it to a minute. And [47:14] they told us about this organization [47:15] called Tarenu ran by this this rabbi [47:17] Rabbi Melbour who basically originally [47:20] he founded the organization to deal with [47:21] what's called hak like infertility which [47:23] is basically like um issues with nida [47:27] that like would make you less prone to [47:29] be able to conceive. And that's also [47:31] like eight years ago I went to an event [47:33] about this organization. I had no idea [47:36] that they were [clears throat] going to [47:37] be such a lifeline to us and I just [47:39] thought they dealt with ha like haha [47:41] infertility. [47:42] >> They started doing that and then [47:43] eventually they started dealing with [47:44] like basically crazy complications with [47:47] with pregnancy had a lot of connections [47:48] to a lot of different doctors and all of [47:50] that. And then she said, "Yeah." And [47:52] then and then at one point we were [47:53] talking to her later like it took a [47:55] little while for her to drill it into [47:56] us, I think. [47:57] >> And um and she's like, "Yeah, like um my [48:00] husband also like oh they didn't show up [48:02] normal normally, but what what for [48:03] whatever reason like she said, okay, [48:05] like there are like these types of [48:07] testing for these things that are like [48:08] more on like a chromosonal level [48:11] >> and you guys should look into doing [48:12] that. [48:13] >> It's called DFI, DNA, [48:15] >> DNA fragmentation index. So we talked to [48:18] Rabbi Meler and he hooked us up with [48:20] this organization called uh Mir Kazaru [48:23] which is located in Pataka and um [48:26] actually the phenomenal thing about him [48:28] is that um [48:31] back in like the in like the in like the [48:33] early 90s already like I know someone [48:35] who was in Barlan he was already working [48:36] on these microscopes then. So like we [48:38] really are on the cutting edge in this [48:40] country like in terms of fertility. So [48:42] for all of you old people uh not not [48:45] that so many people out there are like [48:46] listening to this podcast that like have [48:48] crazy views, but if you are ever on the [48:51] fringe, [48:52] >> if we're uh if we're not like uh [48:54] changing the world like uh in Israel and [48:57] Jewish people are not changing the [48:58] world, this is just one of many many [49:00] many examples. I just could do an entire [49:03] podcast on that. [49:04] >> But um so Mir Kazbaru was very involved [49:06] with that. I went to them to do like the [49:08] more genetic level testing and they [49:11] found out that on the chromosomal level. [49:13] Um, things were not great. So, I had to [49:16] take a bunch of vitamins uh for a few [49:18] months. [49:19] >> Wait, let's just say though that a lot [49:20] of people had to get surgery for this. [49:23] >> All he had to do was take vitamins. [49:25] >> Yeah, I did to find out if I need to do [49:27] a surgery. I had to do like a special uh [49:30] >> um uh like ultrasound and all of that. [49:33] And I didn't have to do that. Um, there [49:35] are people who some have to do a [49:36] surgery. I did the I don't even think I [49:39] did the testing again, but they were [49:41] able to retrie Basically what they do is [49:42] basically you give them a sample and [49:44] they're able to retrieve like the things [49:46] that are like DNA like like most like [49:49] amazing and they like package it up and [49:51] they like spend hours like looking under [49:53] this microscope [49:54] >> hours [49:55] >> and um and you get like a mushki and [49:58] like all that from bonol and they also [49:59] give you money towards that also. [50:01] >> Okay, wait. But bonum is also a huge [50:02] deal because bonum people don't realize [50:04] that in Israel when most of the things [50:06] are free in Israel. There's many things [50:09] that aren't free in Israel. Um if you go [50:11] past that point. [clears throat] So we [50:14] went to a recurrent law specialist. He [50:16] wasn't free. We went to um you know we [50:19] did this microscope test that wasn't [50:22] free and Bon covered it for us. [50:24] >> Wow. Unbelievable. It's Yeah. [50:26] >> Yeah. And I was going to say that what's [50:29] wild to me is that you know obviously [50:32] Hashem orchestrates everything but had [50:34] you not had that conversation with that [50:36] friend that simple Torah you know you're [50:38] trying you're trying and you know there [50:40] are so many people that try and and they [50:41] say okay this is what it is but you [50:43] really you know you put in that and [50:46] Hashem you know [50:48] >> we would I mean there were [50:50] >> I think we mentioned by the way like the [50:51] friends like after they did all this [50:52] stuff they had twins and then later [50:54] ended up having another kid also. Wow. [50:57] Masleto. [50:57] >> Yeah. Yeah. And um No, but I think that [51:00] you know in terms of you know this DNA [51:03] fragmentation, right? So basically [51:05] create an embryo that was healthy. [51:07] >> Wow. [51:07] >> And because the embryo was healthy, we [51:09] were able to genetically test the [51:12] embryo. [51:13] >> And so we were able to finally get [51:15] genetically tested embryos. But that [51:18] took until literally I believe retrieval [51:20] nine because there were so many trial [51:23] and error and trying this and trying [51:25] that and even right as I said in the [51:28] beginning um about PCOS. They as a kid [51:32] they said I had as as a kid they said [51:34] that I had PCOS. I don't have PCOS. They [51:38] they they had to figure out so many [51:40] different ways of like this is your like [51:42] what is your diagnosis? And that's why I [51:44] always say it's an a thousand piece [51:46] puzzle because there were so many [51:49] different parts and it wasn't [51:51] completely, you know, giddy. It wasn't [51:53] completely me. We were able to implant [51:55] an embryo. We were able to there was no [51:58] issue with lining or anything. [52:00] >> And then it was like, wait, what? We [52:02] have this other issue. [52:04] >> Um, and it was all these different [52:05] things that kind of came out at us of [52:07] like, okay, so what do we do about it? I [52:11] just think that like really in the end [52:13] of it all like Amster is what carried us [52:15] through this whole time. Um and also [52:18] >> and obviously Hash obviously [52:19] >> but also I think the my page right which [52:21] we didn't even mention yet. [52:23] >> Sure. Yeah. I think my page really gave [52:26] us so much over the years [52:28] [clears throat] [52:29] and it's not, you know, I there's so [52:31] many influencers these days that are [52:33] like, "Oh, I just want free stuff." And [52:35] I cannot relate to them because I'm just [52:36] like, "Yeah, free stuff is nice." Or not [52:39] free stuff, but collabing and getting, [52:41] you know, getting brand deals and all [52:43] that. That's really nice. But the best [52:46] parts for me of my page has always been, [52:49] first of all, the initiatives that I [52:50] run. I run three different initiatives. [52:52] Um I run a kala bake like a kala group [52:56] that we try to bake kala for people [52:58] every um week like we try to get as many [53:01] people as possible to bake kala for [53:02] those struggling with infertility. Um I [53:06] have a toil initiative where I pair [53:07] people up that are going through similar [53:09] struggles. Um I you know last year we [53:12] created a tollum initiative for us to [53:14] help us in our struggle. Um, and people [53:17] dabbing for us every single day. Still [53:19] to this day, I'm saying people are [53:20] dabbing for us. And it's it's amazing to [53:23] see. Um, and it's amazing to see like, [53:26] you know, I really started the page as [53:27] just a place of hope, a place of I [53:30] didn't even know what was going on. [53:31] Like, I'm like, I'm just going to start [53:33] my page. I was literally cooking dinner [53:36] while I when I created the page. And um, [53:39] I didn't know what was going to happen. [53:41] and is just such an amazing source of [53:44] for us. But also the amount of children [53:46] that have been brought into the world [53:47] and the amount of people that have [53:49] messaged me and they're like you helped [53:51] me bring this child into the world is [53:54] insane and it's remarkable and I [53:58] it is just it gives me every single day [54:00] to pay attention. [54:01] >> Yeah. And the amazing thing also is like [54:03] it's great because we get to give back [54:05] for all the people that give us we [54:06] didn't even get to mention like all the [54:07] mental health organization. There's like [54:08] a kaz panim which is like uh therapy for [54:11] people struggling with infertility for [54:12] free and um I was supposed to have a [54:15] baby all these other great and it's able [54:18] to like kind of give back [54:21] tyrinu as we said all these you know all [54:24] >> there's going to be by the way there's [54:25] going to be a place after when you're [54:26] going to sleep tonight like shoots we [54:28] forgot to mention them so anyone who we [54:29] forgot [54:30] >> no but all these organizations well we [54:32] we actually made a list at 32 weeks I I [54:35] kept saying to Gideon I'm like we had to [54:37] make a list so that we say it at the [54:38] brris. We we literally have a list of [54:41] organizations that you know we've [54:43] connected with that we've spoken with. [54:45] Um our [54:47] >> OBGYn you know as we mentioned is [54:49] amazing. ever hire could beg. Every [54:52] single person has helped us [54:54] >> like you don't know Amishel until you go [54:58] through such an insane crisis had to put [55:02] the puzzle pieces together and realize [55:05] that all of Amisel is basically helping [55:08] with another puzzle piece [55:09] >> and most importantly it's all like a big [55:10] hug from Hashem which like really really [55:12] powerful to like see that love and [55:14] embrace that we were saying like the [55:16] relationship of like [55:19] Bonding [55:20] >> and I want to mention you you're coming [55:22] out with the Brazilian course. [55:23] >> Yes. So um you know as we said my life [55:26] is very very crazy. My life I mean my [55:28] life has been very very crazy. I've gone [55:30] through numerous you know big tea [55:33] traumas that people are always like I [55:35] don't know how you got through one let [55:37] alone all of them. Um and so um a few [55:41] weeks ago uh somebody messaged me and [55:43] was like I want to help you create a [55:45] course. And I'm like okay let's do it. [55:48] Um and so it's basically a six chapter [55:52] course with uh worksheets and with [55:56] activities that people can do to help [55:58] them work on their resilience and to you [56:02] know learn more how to handle life's [56:05] challenges because everybody is going [56:06] through something and um I think that is [56:09] the key. I'm going to say one last story [56:11] to tie this up because I think it's I [56:13] think it's a very important story. My [56:15] mom always tells me when I was a baby, I [56:17] cried my head off and I wouldn't stop [56:20] crying. My dad would tell my mom. My dad [56:23] would say, "She's so tenacious. She's so [56:26] tenacious. Why can't she just stop?" And [56:29] she and and then he said, "One day this [56:32] is going to pay off for her so well, but [56:35] right now she is just driving us crazy." [56:38] And I think that like really that ten [56:41] that ten like if if we were going to end [56:43] with one you know concluding remark it [56:46] would be this that [56:48] be tenacious be resilient learn how to [56:53] have those skills and really in life you [56:56] can get through anything if you have [56:59] those skills because and if you have the [57:02] people that care about you and people [57:04] that you know have your back like all of [57:06] Ammy does [57:07] >> and you realize Sham's always got your [57:08] back [57:09] >> and yeah [57:10] >> really [57:11] >> Sham got your back. [57:12] >> A man Tamar Giddy Bashtova. [57:15] >> Amen. And thank you so much for for [57:18] coming on and and being so detailed and [57:20] so outspoken throughout this entire [57:22] process. you know, you know, we we all [57:24] know people who are struggling and are [57:26] challenged and you know, people don't [57:28] really know what to do and but I I I [57:30] think you know what you're doing with [57:32] your page and just this conversation [57:34] alone gives people more context and also [57:36] more hope to be like okay you know like [57:39] you know mashm [57:41] >> worked for you and it's it's very [57:43] special. So [57:44] >> you know I think that people have asked [57:46] us so many times what is your diagnosis? [57:49] what is your what what what what was the [57:51] challenge? And one of the reasons that I [57:54] didn't want to ever share was not [57:56] because, you know, oh, we're such [57:58] private people. We're really not. But I [58:01] also think that at a certain point it [58:03] was very hard. So emotional, you know, [58:05] the emotional aspects of infertility, we [58:08] didn't speak about that so much today [58:09] because we always speak about the [58:11] emotional aspects. I think that knowing [58:14] the resources, having the resources and [58:17] having that knowledge is really what [58:19] we're trying to give over today because [58:22] that is so necessary when you're going [58:25] through such a you know intense [58:27] fertility um crisis and I think people I [58:31] hope people can very much benefit from [58:32] that. [58:33] >> It's a good time to do it at [58:35] which should be the happy ending. Every [58:38] story needs a good ending. [58:40] >> Oh man. Also, anybody can reach out to [58:42] me at any time. I'm always available by [58:44] DM and I I that is something that I hold [58:46] myself very very accountable of that I [58:49] always answer everybody's DM. [58:51] >> Um because I know how important it is. [58:54] >> Um but also I think that and I have the [58:57] resources. I'm very connected. But I [58:59] also think that like you know don't be [59:02] anxious and also um just reach out and [59:05] >> right sometimes that one-on-one with a [59:07] person. and organizations are great, but [59:09] having that oneonone presuka relate and [59:11] go help you through it. It's [59:13] >> it could really make a difference. [59:14] >> And finding the right doctors and the [59:16] right resources for you is like key to [59:18] success. [59:19] >> Oh man. Okay guys, thank you. And I'm so [59:22] happy to announce that shortly after [59:24] this interview literally they had a [59:26] baby. A vikai Yonatan is the name. So [59:30] definitely go ahead wish them Mazatov. [59:31] And also this is just just a lesson to [59:34] never give up hope. And um we are so [59:37] excited for them and they should only [59:39] have tons of nahas from him and only [59:41] [music] good things. If you made it this [59:43] far in the episode, comment the word [59:44] hope below cuz I read every comment and [59:46] they're going to also see. Here's what [59:48] I'm taking out from Tamara and Gideon. [59:50] 10 years of nos and they never stopped [59:51] showing up. They never stopped doving. [59:53] They never stopped believing. They never [59:55] stopped living their lives wide open. [59:56] Most people would have given up [music] [59:58] and they didn't. And that's the thing [60:00] about the weight. You don't get to know [60:02] when it ends. You only get to choose who [60:04] you are while you're in it. So, whatever [60:06] you're waiting for right now, don't give [60:07] up before your miracle. Keep going. [60:10] Hashem has a plan. It's not always easy, [60:12] but you got to just keep it going. I [60:14] want to thank our awesome sponsors. [60:16] Again, I want to thank Aime. Go ahead [60:18] and help them. And if you need any help, [60:20] A is there for free to help you. Go [60:23] ahead and check out BF Design. If you [60:25] are designing your home, your shul, your [60:27] building, whatever it is, they are [60:28] [music] the architects of the future [60:30] today. If you are in need of a car, [60:33] wheels is your one-stop shop. If you are [60:36] ready to help the people of Claustrol, [60:38] go to kohabad and download the pushka [60:40] app today. And if you are searching for [60:42] your bashart, go to jwed.com and get [60:46] ready to meet hopefully your spouse. If [60:49] this episode moved you, show tomorrow [60:50] and Gideon some love in the comments, [60:52] too. And one more thing, what you heard [60:54] today is one couple story. And honestly, [60:56] it's not even a fraction of what they've [60:58] been through. Now, people don't realize [61:00] that the challenges others are going [61:01] through. So remember this the next time [61:03] you're about to judge someone [music] [61:04] online or anywhere else. Bullying is [61:06] never okay. Be respectful. And remember, [61:09] we're we're Jewish people and we believe [61:10] in not [music] speaking ill or bad about [61:12] others. And and this conversation just [61:14] to remind you that this is a small facet [61:16] of their life that we should never [61:17] judge. We should always have empathy. [61:19] and and so many people who live around [61:21] us. You know, everyone's going through [61:23] something and we should always try to be [61:24] there for them or be as supportive as we [61:26] could be cuz that's what the Jewish [61:27] nation's about. Always remember, [61:30] inspiration [music] is everywhere. [61:34] [music] [61:35] Living
