Transcript [00:00] But I think we have to get to this core [00:01] issue of dual loyalty. Meaning in the [00:03] end of the day, is Tucker Carlson right? [00:06] Is Nick Fentes right? Are Jews in [00:07] America disloyal to America? Am I am I [00:10] am I going to come in this book and say [00:11] something that will, you know, endanger [00:13] American Jews even more? So I think we [00:15] have to really be clear about the [00:17] distinction dual loyalty versus dual [00:20] identity. Dual loyalty means what nation [00:22] are you loyal to? And for that question, [00:25] Jewish law is actually very very clear. [00:27] It's called dinautina. The law of the [00:29] land is the law. Right? Jewish law [00:31] requires you to be a good citizen, a [00:34] loyal citizen and a model citizen even [00:36] of your host country wherever you might [00:38] live. So American Jews are obligated to [00:41] actually be loyal to America. They have [00:43] to be loyal citizens, right? [00:44] >> Welcome to this episode of [00:45] Shouldertoshoulder, a podcast where a [00:47] pastor and a rabbi get to the heart of [00:49] issues that matter to people of faith. [00:51] I'm Pastor Doug Reed here with my friend [00:52] Rabbi Pesaki. And on this episode, we'll [00:55] be having a conversation with our good [00:57] friend, Rabbi Ellie Michelle, about his [01:00] new book, Countdown: American Jews and [01:02] God's Plan for Redemption. Before we [01:04] jump into our conversation, please like [01:06] our Facebook page, and join our Facebook [01:09] group, the Shoulder-to-Ser Community, [01:10] where you can interact with Peso and me [01:13] all week long. The best way to support [01:15] this podcast is to go on over to [01:16] Patreon, subscribe to [01:17] Shouldertoshoulder. For just $10 a [01:19] month, you're helping us bring this [01:21] message of shoulder-to-shoulder to more [01:22] and more people all around the world. As [01:25] a thank you for your $10 subscription, [01:27] you'll get exclusive access to chapterby [01:29] chapter Bible study beginning in Genesis [01:31] chapter 1 from Rabbi Peso and myself. So [01:33] go on over to Patreon, subscribe to [01:35] Shouldertoshoulder for just $10 a month. [01:38] We're grateful for our sponsor Israel [01:40] 365 News, which is the place for you to [01:42] go and get your news and information [01:44] before going to anyone else. Go on over [01:46] to Israel the number 365news.com [01:50] to check out some of the articles and be [01:52] sure to read Rabbi Peso in my columns. [01:54] Now they have some incredible products [01:56] and initiatives each and every week that [01:58] we support. Peso, what are we [02:00] highlighting this week at Israel 365? [02:04] Well, we're going to talk about Bible [02:06] Plus again. We talked about it last week [02:08] and I just think it's so important. And [02:09] it's actually going to come up in our [02:10] conversation today with with our guest, [02:12] Rabbi Ellie Michelle, who I work with at [02:15] Israel 365. Uh we talked about it last [02:18] week, bible-lus.com. [02:21] This is an online platform for studying [02:23] the Bible with some of the greatest u uh [02:26] educators in Israel. And uh you know, we [02:30] go through all the books of the Bible. [02:31] And we have courses on a whole range of [02:32] topics. Short self-study courses where [02:36] you know the each lesson is a is a video [02:39] maybe 10 20 minutes long sometimes [02:41] shorter sometimes a little longer. And [02:44] it's really an incredible interactive [02:46] platform and you can send in questions [02:50] and get your answers. And it's a it's a [02:52] subscription platform. We and those who [02:55] are using it are loving it. go on over [02:57] to bible plus just you can just Google [03:01] bible plus and you'll find it but [03:03] bible-plus.com [03:05] and sign up and there's some courses [03:06] that I have taught that are on there as [03:08] well. Also, if you're a if you're a [03:10] shoulder-to-shoulder Rabbi Pesaf Williki [03:12] fan, you're going to have a few courses [03:14] there to study as well. But go over to [03:16] Bible Plus. It's really it's so [03:17] important, especially because, you know, [03:19] Doug, we're living in an era where there [03:21] is a crisis of biblical literacy. And [03:24] uh, you know, there's a lot of hand [03:26] ringing over it, a lot of problems with [03:27] that. And we see that even with a lot of [03:30] young people, you know, returning to [03:32] faith or coming to faith, that still [03:34] hasn't changed the fact that biblical [03:36] literacy is a serious issue. And at [03:39] Israel 365, we have tried to combat that [03:42] in our own way by creating this [03:45] incredible platform. Again, it's, you [03:47] know, for your own self-study. If you [03:49] only have a few minutes a day while [03:50] you're having breakfast, while you're [03:51] having dinner, just spend a few minutes [03:53] doing one of these classes with really [03:55] top-notch educators. We found some of [03:57] the best educators in Israel. And we [03:59] record these courses and uh there's a [04:01] massive library, a growing library of [04:03] the courses on Bible Plus. So, go to [04:05] bibleplus.com. [04:08] Excellent. And I always tell my pastor [04:10] friends when they're looking for [04:11] resources on Israel on the Bible. [04:14] There's lots of great stuff out there [04:16] and lots of organizations have a one-off [04:18] book, but there's no one quite like [04:20] Israel 365. Your guys education [04:22] department is top-notch. The books, [04:24] materials, videos. So, if you're looking [04:26] to deepen your understanding of Jewish [04:28] Christian relations, of Israel, of God, [04:30] the Bible, uh Israel 365 is a great [04:33] place to start. So, go and check those [04:36] resources out. You won't regret it. [04:39] Well, Pesock, it's a beautiful day here [04:41] in Buffalo. We're back in Buffalo. Uh [04:44] our travels were light, but we're [04:45] getting ready for a big six and a half [04:47] week uh stint with the kids and uh [04:49] crisscrossing the country, lots of [04:51] churches and shaking hands and kissing [04:53] babies and sharing about Israel. And [04:56] we're just getting started. It's been a [04:57] lot of fun. So, I hope people caught the [04:59] YouTube link last week. I hope they're [05:00] going to your YouTube channel to check [05:02] out shoulderto-shoulder. So, it's Pesak [05:04] Willilicki and the reads are here. go to [05:06] both of those YouTube links and [05:09] subscribe. Uh, lots of exciting stuff [05:11] happening in both of our worlds. [05:12] >> Yeah, Doug, I got to ask you, you know, [05:15] just from the little bit of travel, the [05:16] first taste that you guys had of it, how [05:18] did the kids hold up in terms of, you [05:21] know, just their their energy, their [05:22] sleeping, you know, because when you're [05:24] on the road, it's one thing you the kids [05:26] get excited, but this is going to be a [05:27] lot more than a vacation. You're going [05:28] to be all over the country. This is [05:30] going to become a way of life. So, [05:31] what's your read on the on how well, [05:34] pardon the pun, what's your read on how [05:36] the kids are doing with all the travel? [05:38] >> So, I'll tell you one funny story [05:40] that'll give a a glimpse into it. So, we [05:41] were in Newcastle, Pennsylvania this [05:44] past weekend for just one night at a [05:46] hotel. We were with a good friend of [05:48] mine, Pastor Alonzo Waters, uh, in an [05:50] African-American church about 80%. [05:52] >> I've met Alonzo when Alonzo came to [05:54] Israel a few years ago. I remember [05:55] meeting him. [05:56] >> Yes. He he and his wife Jod were such [05:59] great hosts. Love Israel. church was uh [06:01] really really fun to to be at. And these [06:04] first couple churches out of the gate [06:06] are all friendlies. Uh I have several [06:08] now that I've booked that I I just met [06:10] the pastor. I don't know anything about [06:11] the church. And so I'm very interested [06:13] to see how some of this goes. I know how [06:16] it's going to go in the early stages cuz [06:18] these are these are friends. These are [06:19] uh pro-Israel. They're they're in the [06:21] space. But as we move forward, it'll be [06:23] interesting to see. But one funny story. [06:25] So, we get down and this was our first [06:27] time staying in two separate hotel rooms [06:30] where my wife and I were in one room and [06:32] the kids were in another room. Now, our [06:33] kids make me look way better than I am [06:35] as a dad. They're incredibly well [06:37] behaved, but the hotel didn't have a way [06:40] to give us a joined room. So, the rooms [06:42] were about four rooms apart. Not not a [06:45] big deal. And Charlotte's 14. She [06:47] watches the kids the kids. She has a [06:50] kid. She watches the boys all the time, [06:51] but she's like mom number two. And so, [06:54] you know, we were figuring out how to [06:55] navigate. My wife was a little [06:57] apprehensive because we didn't have [06:58] direct access. You know, we had to go [07:00] down the hall to get to their room. And [07:02] so, we get them all situated, get them [07:04] in their room, they go to sleep, no [07:07] issues. The next morning, we go and wake [07:10] them up and we're like, "How how'd you [07:12] guys sleep? Was everything okay?" And [07:14] they were like, "Great." and our [07:15] Abraham, our 8-year-old, gets this grin [07:18] on his face and he goes, "As soon as you [07:20] guys closed the door and went down the [07:22] hall, we looked at each other and said, [07:23] "Mom and dad aren't here. It's time to [07:25] party." So, they had a a little time [07:28] together. And Charlotte goes, "We did [07:31] not party, Dad." I'm like, "I know. I [07:32] know you rained them in, girl." But, uh, [07:34] they're really enjoying it. Honestly, [07:36] they're they're taking it uh in stride. [07:38] They're enjoying this week. We're going [07:40] to be home for 5 days straight and do [07:41] some laundry and and breathe a little [07:44] bit, but uh they're enjoying it and [07:45] they're taking all the new in. Uh we [07:48] have a code word when we go to churches [07:50] for so so if you're having us in and you [07:52] hear one of my kids say this, you'll [07:53] know what it is. But we told the kids, [07:55] you're going to experience a lot of new [07:57] people. You're going to see a lot of uh [07:59] people for the first time that uh and [08:00] you're going to see some people that [08:01] know you because they follow me on [08:03] social media and they're going to think [08:04] they know you and they're going to come [08:05] up and talk to you. And so I said, "If [08:08] you need a break from people, we need [08:11] kind of like a code word so that you can [08:12] go sit in the car, you can go to the [08:14] pastor's office, or we can get you [08:16] away." And so the kids were going back [08:18] and forth as to what the code word [08:20] should be. And what we've landed on is [08:21] they're they're going to ask us for a [08:22] pickle sandwich. And so if they ask for [08:24] a pickle sandwich, it means I need a [08:26] break from people, Dad. Get me out of [08:28] here. Uh help. And so we haven't we [08:31] haven't had to use it yet. Abraham's [08:32] been really He's our jokester. He's our [08:34] youngest. And so the very first day, the [08:37] very first event we go to, we're walking [08:39] to the event and he puts a grin on his [08:40] face. He goes, "Dad, I need a pickle [08:42] sandwich. I get out of here." [08:45] So, it's been good. It's been good. It's [08:47] early, but uh the next six and a half [08:49] weeks will be a test for sure. [08:51] >> Amazing. Yeah, it's very exciting. And [08:54] you know, again, I said it last week, [08:55] but I got to say it again that in the [08:58] environment that we're in, you know, [08:59] Tucker Carlson just dropped another [09:00] episode where he was attacking Christian [09:02] Zionism. And you know the it seems that [09:06] the theological question of Israel has [09:09] entered into the political discourse in [09:11] a way that we have never seen before and [09:13] I don't even think we ever anticipated [09:16] and the Christian Zionist movement it [09:18] right now needs to be bold and pastors [09:21] who are supportive of Israel need to be [09:23] bold and they need to be willing to [09:24] speak up and yeah they're there are [09:26] going to be some there are going to be [09:27] some people out there who they're going [09:29] to lose if they're if they you know take [09:32] that bold stance for Israel. right now. [09:34] But this is as as Bishop Robert Sterns [09:37] likes to say, this is a Bonhaofer moment [09:38] that we're in right now. And standing [09:40] with Israel is the question of the day. [09:41] It's the question facing the church. And [09:43] you know, so at a time like this, to be [09:45] moving to Israel is just amazing. And [09:47] let me just say one other thing. You [09:48] know, you mentioned the YouTube channel [09:49] before that shoulder-to-Ser recently [09:52] moved to YouTube and we've been posting [09:53] it on my YouTube channel because it [09:55] already has, you know, a nice growing [09:58] subscriber base. And I just want to say [10:01] the first uh six episodes of [10:03] Shouldertoshoulder that have gone up in [10:05] YouTube have together garnered close to [10:07] 100,000 views and it's really increased [10:09] our audience and we have a number of new [10:11] Patreon subscribers from that uh you [10:14] know that have come in through YouTube. [10:16] So to all of our YouTube audience, thank [10:18] you so much for getting on the [10:19] shoulder-to-shoulder train. And if you [10:22] want to get into uh some of the the back [10:24] issues as it were or the you know the [10:26] archive, you'll find that on Spotify, [10:28] Stitcher, iTunes, all the places where [10:29] you find audio podcasts. There's a nice [10:32] big library of shoulder-to-shoulder [10:33] going back close to 5 years. So make [10:35] sure to uh you know to check those out [10:38] as well. But yeah, it's very exciting [10:41] and u and and I suppose we should give [10:43] our Patreon subscribers some new [10:44] material. We should be recording some of [10:46] that in the near future. We'll set some [10:47] time and record some more Bible studies [10:49] for you. And uh it's just it's an [10:52] exciting time for Shouldertoshoulder. [10:54] It's an exciting time for the reads. And [10:56] we have a great guest this week, Rabbi [10:58] Ellie Michelle. Uh Doug, you have a bio [11:01] for him. You have a you have intro [11:02] there. I work with him every day. I'd [11:03] rather you intro him week. [11:05] >> Well, I will say this. I have had the [11:08] most pleasant interactions with Rabbi [11:10] Michelle. He honestly exudes joy [11:13] everywhere he goes. Without giving all [11:14] the academic accolades, I just enjoy [11:17] talking to him. Uh God willing when uh [11:20] we get to Israel, we'll get to connect [11:21] on a Shabbat dinner or uh get to enjoy [11:25] some time in Jerusalem together. I [11:26] really look forward to uh getting to be [11:29] pop by the Israel 365 office and hang [11:31] out with you guys for uh for a bit. I [11:33] think it's going to be really really [11:35] exciting. It's going to be awesome. But, [11:37] uh, Rabbi Michelle is an incred [11:39] incredible educator and has his new book [11:42] out, Countdown: American Jews and God's [11:44] Plan for Redemption, which is one of the [11:47] things we really want to get into and [11:49] talk about. So, Rabbi Ellie Michelle, [11:51] welcome back to Shouldertoshoulder. [11:53] >> Thanks so much for having me, guys. And [11:55] and Doug, we cannot wait for you to get [11:57] here. You know, Rabbi Pesak lives in [11:59] Bamesh. It's a nice place. You know, [12:01] it's a little bit sweaty over there, [12:02] I'll be honest. You know, come come to [12:04] the Judeian Hills where we live, Ephra, [12:07] right next to Bethlehem. [12:09] >> I've been to Ephra before. [12:10] >> Yeah. Good breeze. Good breeze all the [12:12] time. It's never too hot over here. [12:14] You're walking where David walked. You [12:16] know, this is this is path is right [12:18] there. [12:19] >> H absolutely. It's uh this is where you [12:22] want to get to. So, we're we're waiting [12:23] for you. [12:24] >> The Shabbat table is open. We can't wait [12:26] to have you and your family. [12:27] >> Beautiful. [12:29] So, Rabbi Michelle Ellie, I guess we'll [12:32] go by first names on this podcast. Uh, [12:34] in my intro, when I was talking about [12:37] Bible Plus, I was talking about the [12:39] issue of biblical literacy, and there's [12:40] a lot going on at Israel 365. And we do [12:43] want to get into that, but first, we [12:45] want to talk about your new book. You've [12:46] written some amazing books. You wrote [12:47] you recently wrote a book about Shabbat [12:49] that everyone here Shabbat Revolution. [12:51] Everyone listening to this podcast, you [12:53] should get it, you know, in the wake of [12:55] of the lesson that Charlie Kirk taught [12:57] so many people uh, you know, with his [13:00] his book coming out uh, telling everyone [13:02] about the how Shabbat transformed his [13:04] life or Rabbi Michelle wrote a book. [13:05] It's really a how-to book. It's a book [13:07] that besides giving you all the ideas [13:09] about Shabbat and the importance of it, [13:10] it also gives you some guidance and you [13:12] don't have to be Jewish to take this [13:14] guidance to bring Shabbat into your [13:16] life. You also wrote the very important [13:17] book after October 7th, the war against [13:20] the Bible, which really helps us [13:23] understand all the current events that [13:24] we've been going through, the tumultuous [13:26] events we've been going through since [13:28] October 7th through the lens of uh of [13:31] biblical thinking. And now you've [13:32] written a new book which is about Jews [13:35] and Judaism. So tell us about the book. [13:37] Give us the, you know, the thumbnail [13:39] sketch and and let's talk about what you [13:41] did here and why. [13:42] >> Sure. Thanks so much. Uh, you know, you [13:45] just mentioned before Tucker Carlson and [13:47] and another episode attacking Christian [13:49] Zionists. Uh, but I think, you know, [13:51] from a Jewish perspective, what we hear [13:53] him talking about all the time and so [13:56] many others like him is this dual [13:58] loyalty accusation, you know, that [14:01] American Jews are not really loyal to [14:04] America. They're not really American. [14:06] Uh, we always hear about Apac. Uh [14:09] Thomas, you know, Massie just talked [14:11] about this after he lost his primary [14:14] election uh about how Apac is really an [14:16] arm of Israel. Of course, it's not. It's [14:18] Americans who believe in who in [14:21] supporting Israel uh and how that [14:23] supports America as well. But we hear [14:25] over and over again, both from the [14:27] right, but also from the left, these [14:29] accusations of dual loyalty. And and I [14:33] think it's it's not an accident, right? [14:35] There's so many different accusations [14:37] that have been made against Jews over [14:39] the generations. Literally thousands of [14:42] of anti-semitic canards and lies and [14:45] falsehoods. And yet the one that we're [14:47] hearing over and over and over again is [14:49] dual loyalty from all sides from left [14:51] and from right. And that's not an [14:53] accident. I believe, right? I'm gonna [14:56] say something a little bit wild here, [14:57] but I believe that God is sending all of [14:59] these people, Tucker Carlson, Nick [15:01] Fuentes, Candace Owens, and so many [15:03] others as his maybe they're unwitting [15:07] messengers of God because they are [15:09] coming to touch a particularly sore [15:12] point for all American Jews, which is [15:14] who are you? What are you in your [15:16] essence? because that really is the [15:19] internal crisis that's also plaguing [15:21] American Jews today, right? What does it [15:24] mean to be a Jew in America? Are you are [15:27] you a religion? Right? So, are you as an [15:29] American Jew just like a Catholic uh you [15:32] know American or is it you know like an [15:34] evangelical American? It's just a [15:36] religion or are you somehow connected to [15:38] Israel in a way that that maybe [15:41] compromises your connection to America? [15:43] So, this is something that that really [15:45] really stresses out American Jews. [15:47] American Jews hate talking about this [15:50] topic. Uh, but I believe we're at the [15:52] point in history where we cannot avoid [15:55] it. Meaning, all of our enemies, all of [15:56] these haters are talking about this [15:59] topic. And it really forces American [16:01] Jews to grapple with who they are and [16:04] where they are meant to be going [16:05] forward. Uh, and so in this book, I [16:08] spend a lot of time diving into [16:10] precisely that question. What we find [16:13] over and over and over again, literally [16:16] beginning with Abraham and going through [16:18] the entire Bible, right, God is makes it [16:21] extremely clear, we are not a religion, [16:25] right? We are a nation, right? According [16:27] to to Jewish tradition and if you read [16:29] carefully in the words of the Bible, [16:30] Abraham before God spoke to him was [16:33] already the head of a religion. God told [16:35] Abraham, "Leave your religion and go to [16:38] the land that I will show you where [16:40] you're going to have a baby." Right? [16:42] Meaning, leave your religion and go [16:45] become the father of a nation. And it [16:48] just goes from there. I will make you a [16:50] great nation. [16:51] >> What do you mean that he told them to [16:52] leave your religion? I know the verse in [16:54] in Genesis 12 says, "Leave your your [16:57] home, your birth, leave your birthplace, [17:01] your your um your father's home, your [17:04] land." Right? That's what he tells him. [17:05] What do you mean that he he told him to [17:07] leave his religion? What do you mean? [17:08] >> So, there's a phrase there at the [17:09] beginning of Genesis 12 that says uh [17:12] that Abraham and Sarah when they left, [17:14] they there came with him all these souls [17:17] that they had made in Haran, right? They [17:20] that all the what do they what does that [17:21] mean? the souls that they had made. So [17:23] Jewish tradition understands this and I [17:25] think very logically you know that [17:27] Abraham and Sarah were they had started [17:29] their own monotheistic sort of a a [17:31] religion. They were teaching people [17:33] guiding people. These were the souls [17:35] that they had made and many of them [17:38] actually left Haran. They left along [17:40] with Abraham and Sarah on this journey [17:43] that they were taking to the land of [17:44] Israel. Abraham and Sarah were saying [17:46] goodbye. God told us that I need to go [17:49] we need to go together and to create a [17:51] nation and and these people then left [17:54] and some of them followed Abraham and [17:56] Sarah and we find in that if you keep [17:58] going through the generations right [18:00] Rebecca when she's pregnant right God [18:03] right she's told that she has two [18:05] nations in her womb right not there's no [18:08] word for religion in the Hebrew Bible [18:11] this is something I think pretty [18:12] shocking to people Rabbi Pesaf you [18:15] mentioned before Judaism [18:17] I actually believe that Judaism is a [18:19] madeup word. It is not a Jewish word. It [18:22] is not a Hebrew word. It comes from the [18:24] Greekadesmus. [18:27] It was invented much later by the [18:29] Greeks. Um where the Greeks talk or [18:32] began, they're the ones who began [18:33] speaking about the Jews as not just a [18:35] nation but also as a religion. Uh but [18:37] but the words you hear today, Judaism or [18:39] Yahadut in Hebrew, are really just [18:42] translations of that Greek word. And [18:45] what's even more amazing is that there's [18:47] not really a word for religion in the [18:50] Hebrew Bible. It doesn't come up today. [18:52] The word is dat modern Hebrew. Um but [18:55] that word only comes up once and that [18:57] comes up in the book of Esther where it [18:59] doesn't actually even mean religion. It [19:01] means practices or customs, things like [19:04] that. So there is no word in the Hebrew [19:07] Bible for Judaism and there's no word [19:10] for religion because that's not what God [19:12] was doing with the people of Israel. [19:15] I find that interesting. And you're [19:17] writing this book obviously to spur on a [19:21] conversation, a dialogue with American [19:24] Jews. Do you find that that line of [19:29] thinking will make it more difficult or [19:31] easier for them to come to the [19:33] conclusion that it's time to come home [19:34] to Israel simply because we live in a [19:36] pluralistic society. We compartmentalize [19:39] everything. I have my religion that I go [19:41] to here. I have my work that I go to [19:44] here. Do you think that simplifying it [19:48] all the way down, boiling it down and [19:50] saying this doesn't really exist, [19:51] there's no, you can't compartmentalize [19:54] your life. You're all in or you're all [19:56] out. Do you think that makes it more [19:58] challenging or less challenging for an [20:00] American Jew to go, you know what, I [20:02] want to be in on this. [20:03] >> Well, first of all, when you say allin [20:04] and all out, uh, when you when you [20:06] understand that the Jewish people are a [20:08] nation, in a sense, it's actually more [20:10] expansive, right? It doesn't matter if [20:13] you go to the synagogue or not, right? [20:15] That's not the issue, right? I mean, [20:17] obviously, we want people to be [20:19] following God's law. We want people to [20:21] be uh to be in that sense to be [20:24] religious certainly, right? There there [20:26] is that element to the Jewish people, [20:28] but that is not what determines your [20:31] membership in the nation of Israel. [20:32] We're a nation. If your mother is a Jew, [20:35] then you are a Jew. And and more [20:37] fundamentally than that, right, if you [20:39] identify as part of the Jewish nation, [20:42] right, then you you will be included in [20:43] redemption. And how do we know that? [20:46] Because if you go back to the to the [20:48] story of the Exodus, right, the the [20:50] Jewish people have an unbelievable [20:52] tradition that only 1 of the the people [20:56] of Israel actually left Egypt. Uh [20:58] because it says that they left Egypt [21:00] armed, right? There's that there's that [21:02] verse that says they left armed with [21:03] weapons. The word for armed in Hebrew is [21:06] kamushim which could also it comes from [21:08] the word kamesh meaning five or 1/5if. [21:11] So the the sages tell us that only 1 20% [21:15] of the people of Israel left Egypt. Now [21:17] who are the ones who left and who stayed [21:19] behind right? So the sages have other [21:22] traditions which are really fascinating [21:24] and they say that the ones who left [21:26] Egypt were the ones who kept their [21:28] Hebrew names, the ones who kept their [21:30] Hebrew language and the ones who married [21:34] their fellow Jews. Meaning these were [21:36] not religious requirements. It wasn't [21:39] the most religious Israelites who left [21:42] Egypt. It was the ones who identified as [21:45] Hebrews, right? The ones who kept their [21:47] Hebrew names and their Hebrew language. [21:49] These are national characteristics, [21:52] right? So they weren't necessarily the [21:54] most religious people. In fact, right, [21:56] we have other traditions that say that [21:57] they left Egypt, most of them were [21:59] idoltors. And there's even an amazing [22:01] statement in in like Jewish mysticism [22:03] that they when they went through the sea [22:05] during the splitting of the sea, many of [22:07] them were holding their idols. Can you [22:09] imagine God is splitting the sea for [22:11] them [22:12] >> and they're and they're clutching onto [22:13] their idols as they walk through through [22:16] as they walk through the sea. These are [22:18] the people that God saved. So the what [22:20] their redeeming quality is that they [22:22] identified as part of God's people. The [22:25] other 80% who stayed in Egypt, right? [22:29] They they may have been religious. They [22:30] may have believed in God, but they saw [22:32] themselves as Egyptians first. And so I [22:36] believe today, right, the key question [22:39] for American Jews is not who is the most [22:42] religious, but rather who identifies [22:45] with the nation of Israel first and [22:46] foremost and with America secondarily. [22:50] And I know that this is a this is a [22:51] sensitive issue, but I actually believe [22:53] that if we could talk about this [22:55] honestly, it'll actually address the [22:57] anti-semites and and reduce the the [23:00] hatred and fear of Jews. Because once [23:02] you understand who we are and what we [23:04] are once we're honest about it and we [23:06] stop lying to ourselves and lying to the [23:09] nations of the world, then the nations [23:11] at least can have a clear understanding [23:13] of who we are and why we're here and [23:15] then take it or leave it. They're always [23:16] going to be haters. But I think many [23:18] people once they understand what we are, [23:20] who we really are, uh they'll have a [23:22] they'll they'll have a a different [23:24] understanding of the Jewish people. So I [23:27] I want to go back to the this dual [23:29] loyalty issue which which again you're [23:30] talking about here um because you know [23:35] if you think back only a couple hundred [23:37] years ago in Jewish history this point [23:41] was kind of obvious to all Jews before [23:45] uh a period of time that Jews know as [23:48] the emancipation. And I want to [23:50] introduce our Christian audience to that [23:52] term. If you go back before a couple [23:55] hundred years ago in Europe, Jews were [23:58] always viewed as separate from the rest [24:00] of society. They usually lived in their [24:02] own segregated areas. They weren't [24:04] viewed as part of the nations where they [24:06] lived. They were viewed as foreigners [24:08] who were who were there, some foreign [24:10] tribe. And with the emancipation, what [24:14] happened in Europe under in [24:16] emancipation, just to make a very long [24:18] complicated story short, cuz it didn't [24:19] happen the same way in every country, is [24:21] that that was when post enlightenment, [24:24] the Jews were kind of welcomed in as [24:27] regular citizens in all these countries [24:28] in Europe. And while that might sound [24:32] like a really nice thing, oh, there's no [24:34] more segregation, there's no more [24:35] bigotry, it actually was a in some ways [24:39] catastrophic for the Jewish people [24:41] because so many Jews who remained very [24:44] devout and very committed Jews by virtue [24:46] of the fact that they had no other [24:48] choice. They were just in their Jewish [24:49] communities. Suddenly the walls came [24:51] down and Jews started to assimilate and [24:54] they started to mix in and they started [24:56] to develop these identities thinking of [24:58] themselves as German or French or [25:01] whatever. So the emancipation al was was [25:05] viewed again by many Jews as a crisis [25:06] and in fact what we know as the karedim [25:09] today these what what many people call [25:11] ultraorththodox which is a very strange [25:13] term that we could deconstruct some [25:14] other time but that's the that's the [25:16] colloquialism that people use those Jews [25:19] who you know the kidic Jews who dress [25:21] differently than everyone else with the [25:22] hats and the coats and the sidelocks [25:25] what a lot of that is about is a [25:27] reaction they're still reacting to the [25:30] emancipation saying we don't want to mix [25:32] in. So, we're going to have distinct [25:34] dress and we're not going to mix in. [25:35] We're not going to we're not going to [25:36] take in any of secular culture because [25:38] the emancipation is actually very very [25:41] threatening. So, I say all of this Ellie [25:44] to bring to bring us back to the dual [25:45] loyalty issue. If you asked a Jew in [25:47] Europe a few hundred years ago about [25:49] loyalty to their nation versus loyalty [25:52] to their meaning loyalty to the country [25:54] they're in versus loyalty to and there [25:56] wasn't even a state of Israel yet, but [25:58] loyalty to themselves as Jews. They [26:00] didn't even identify at all at all as as [26:05] part of the country that they were born [26:06] and raised in and had lived in for [26:08] generations. They didn't identify with [26:09] it. They saw themselves as Jews as [26:11] separate from society. So this is really [26:13] a very modern a very modern tension that [26:15] people feel and yet so many Jews feel [26:17] threatened by it. My take [26:20] on the whole dual loyalty issue is that [26:22] if I if I would if I meet a Jew who [26:25] doesn't have that as their primary [26:28] loyalty, their Jewish identity and the [26:30] state of Israel over America, if they're [26:33] an American Jew or Canada, you know, [26:34] where I was where I was raised, it if [26:37] they didn't put Israel and their Jewish [26:39] identity first, I think there's [26:40] something wrong with them because after [26:42] all, exile is a punishment. We're in [26:44] exile. And if we're in exile, we're not [26:46] supposed to be there permanently. were [26:48] there temporarily. And the fact that you [26:50] have American Jews who take offense to [26:53] being accused of dual loyalty to me is I [26:57] mean I mean I hate to tell the [27:00] anti-semites this, but yeah, Jews should [27:02] put Israel first because you're not [27:04] really, you know, the whole question is, [27:06] you know, who are we? Like you said, [27:08] this is this is just my reaction. Maybe [27:10] I'm just echoing what you're saying. [27:12] Look, this is an old issue and it's come [27:14] up before before I think any of us were [27:16] were old enough to remember. But right [27:19] after the establishment of the state of [27:21] Israel, David Bengurian, the first prime [27:23] minister, who you know was not a very [27:26] religious person, but he was a Bible [27:28] fanatic. He absolutely, you know, was [27:31] obsessed with the Bible and with Jewish [27:33] peoplehood. and he came to America in [27:36] those in the early 50s and he started, [27:38] you know, really leaning into and [27:40] pressuring uh American Jews about the [27:43] need to come to Israel. Israel was tiny [27:45] at that point. We had 600,000 Jews. That [27:48] that was it. In 1948, we needed people [27:51] and immediately he got in massive [27:54] trouble. The American Jewish community [27:56] went crazy. Jacob Blousein, the head of [27:58] the American Jewish Committee, they they [28:00] went nuts because hearing David [28:02] Bengurian talk openly this way. It was [28:04] threatening their own status as [28:07] Americans. And so, you know, we maybe [28:10] forget this, but certainly in the ' 50s [28:12] and the 60s, American Jews were kind of [28:14] lukewarm, many of them, about Israel [28:16] because they felt that the existence of [28:18] Israel [28:20] really questioned their status as [28:22] Americans. And so they they kept their [28:25] distance. Things changed for a while, [28:27] but we're kind of back to that issue [28:28] again, which is why so many progressive [28:31] Jews are increasingly uncomfortable with [28:34] Jewish nationhood. But I think we have [28:36] to get to this core issue of dual [28:38] loyalty, meaning in the end of the day, [28:40] is Tucker Carlson right? Is Nick Fuentes [28:44] right? Are Jews in America disloyal to [28:46] America? Am I am I am I going to come in [28:48] this book and say something that will, [28:50] you know, endanger American Jews even [28:52] more? So I think we have to really be [28:55] clear about the distinction dual loyalty [28:59] versus dual identity. Dual loyalty means [29:02] what nation are you loyal to? And for [29:05] that question Jewish law is actually [29:07] very very clear. It's called dinina [29:09] deutina. The law of the land is the law [29:12] right Jewish law requires you to be a [29:15] good citizen a loyal citizen and a model [29:18] citizen even of your host country [29:21] wherever you might live. So, American [29:23] Jews are obligated to actually be loyal [29:26] to America. They have to be loyal [29:28] citizens, right? And the the couple of [29:30] exceptions over all of, you know, the [29:32] last few hundred years of American Jews [29:34] not being loyal to America are the [29:36] exceptions that prove the rule. They [29:38] have to be loyal. This whole dual [29:40] loyalty thing is a canard. It's false [29:42] and it's fake. However, dual identity is [29:47] a very real issue. And the best way to [29:51] describe dual identity is to just [29:53] remember that unbelievably awkward [29:56] conversation that happened in front of [29:58] the entire world when President Trump [29:59] came to the Knesset to celebrate the [30:02] release of the hostages, right? And he [30:04] gets up and he says he starts talking [30:06] and and thanking Miriam Adlesen, right? [30:09] His the the big Republican donor. And he [30:12] says, "Miriam, [30:14] what do you love more? What do you love [30:16] more, America or Israel?" Now, only [30:20] President Trump could say it like that. [30:21] But the truth is, you got to really pay [30:23] attention to what he's saying. He's not [30:25] saying, "Miriam, are you loyal to [30:27] America?" That wasn't even a question. [30:29] Of course, Miriam is loyal to America. [30:32] That wasn't the question for President [30:34] Trump. The real question was, "What do [30:36] you love more? Where is your heart?" [30:39] Right? Where is your identity? And [30:41] Miriam could not answer America on the [30:44] spot sitting there in the Knesset [30:46] because her heart-c is in Israel. She's [30:49] a good Jew. The Bible commands us to, [30:52] right? All the prophecies point towards [30:54] Jews coming home to the land of Israel. [30:56] If you say that you love America more [30:58] than Israel, that your heart is in [31:00] America forever, then you're not being a [31:02] good Jew. There's no way around it. And [31:04] so, we have to distinguish between the [31:06] two. A lot of American Jews don't want [31:08] to hear this either. They want to they [31:10] they believe that they are heart and [31:11] soul Americans. But if they want to be [31:13] included in redemption and that's what [31:15] we learned from the Exodus, they have to [31:18] identify uh with the people and and the [31:21] nation of Israel. It's an eitheror. [31:25] You know, for our Christian audience, [31:27] it's not the same, but we have some [31:29] similar thought process. I consider [31:32] myself a Christian before I am anything [31:34] else. I'm loyal to the God of the Bible. [31:37] uh I'm loyal to the principles of [31:39] scripture, the values of scripture. And [31:41] you you would hear this uh in some of [31:43] our songs years ago and thought process [31:46] where we would say things like, well, [31:48] you know, I'm in this world, but I'm not [31:50] of this world. I'm just the Christian [31:52] idea. I'm just passing through uh you [31:54] know, I'm part of a different kingdom. [31:56] We would use language like that in a [31:57] spiritual sense, not a physical nation [31:59] necessarily. So, it's similar, not the [32:01] same. But I think for many Christians, [32:04] uh you you may wrestle through this, but [32:07] in the same way that you have uh a [32:10] Jewish command to be a good citizen, uh [32:12] I think of Romans 13. I think of a [32:14] number of different spots in the New [32:15] Testament that command us to give to [32:18] Caesar what is Caesar, to to render to [32:20] the law what's the law, to be a good [32:21] citizen, to pay your taxes, do the [32:23] things you need to do, um but to give to [32:25] God what is God's. And I think I think [32:27] there's a thread there that's very [32:29] similar. So for our Christian audience [32:30] as you're listening to this uh I know we [32:32] don't have a Christian nation state per [32:35] se but we we certainly have this higher [32:39] call to the kingdom of God to the [32:40] authority of scripture that supersedes [32:43] for me any political party anything like [32:45] that and I often say to uh my church I [32:49] say the hope of the world doesn't sit at [32:51] 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as much as uh [32:53] I'm going to vote I'm going to show up [32:55] I'm going to be a good citizen uh my [32:58] hope is not in political structures or [33:01] leadership. We belong to a a higher [33:03] kingdom to uh the God of heaven. And so [33:06] I think that's important. Uh but I think [33:09] what's more fascinating in this, as much [33:11] as the theology that's unpacked in the [33:14] book is really important, most people [33:16] connect to story and to narrative uh far [33:19] more. This is your story. You were an [33:23] American Jew and you're now an Israeli [33:25] Jew. So take take us through your [33:28] journey. What was the moment you woke up [33:30] and looked at your wife and said, [33:31] "Honey, we're going to Israel." You [33:33] know, what what did that look like for [33:35] you? And how should that inspire uh [33:38] other American Jews that maybe are [33:40] sitting there and maybe they're going to [33:41] get a hold of your book and they're [33:42] going to say, "Well, maybe I should do [33:44] this and maybe I should identify more." [33:47] What was what was your thought process? [33:49] What were the kind of moments for you [33:50] that led you to make? [33:53] You know, I feel like it's really unfair [33:55] because I had I have parents who are not [33:58] normal parents. Uh, you know, they they [34:01] did not grow up with the Bible, but they [34:03] did grow up uh and certainly my father [34:06] first and foremost, he grew up with my [34:08] grandfather who was who was badly [34:10] wounded in the Battle of the Bulge. You [34:12] know, Memorial Day, here we are. Uh, I [34:15] think I'm thinking about my grandfather [34:16] who I never had a chance to meet. He [34:17] died very young because of, you know, [34:19] because of complications from the wounds [34:21] that he suffered in World War II. So, [34:24] this is a man who was a a real patriot. [34:26] And yet, you know, I'll never forget [34:29] this story that I hear from my dad in [34:30] 1967 [34:32] when, you know, the six- day war was [34:33] about to hit, right? We in the end, we [34:35] we know in retrospect it was an [34:37] unbelievable victory for Israel. Um, we [34:40] just celebrated, you know, Jerusalem Day [34:42] and the liberation of Jerusalem, but in [34:44] those weeks leading up to the 6- day [34:46] war, it was absolutely terrifying. Uh, [34:50] and and my dad describes how his dad, [34:52] you know, they went to some Jewish [34:54] Federation meeting and nobody knew what [34:56] to do. And my my dad, you know, [34:58] describes how his father, my [35:00] grandfather, just pulled out every [35:02] dollar that he had in his wallet. They [35:04] were not wealthy. And they just like [35:06] threw everything, you know, into the [35:08] they had like a bucket in the middle of [35:09] the floor and the Jews didn't know what [35:10] to do. Everybody was in a panic like [35:13] this could be the end, right? And Egypt, [35:15] Syria, Jordan, they were all threatening [35:17] to destroy Israel. And my grandfather [35:20] just took out a check and wrote the [35:22] largest check he had ever written in his [35:24] life. And that's including the check [35:26] that he wrote for the down payment for [35:28] their house in Queens, New York. And you [35:30] you know that was really it just changed [35:32] my father forever. And that was before [35:34] he became a truly biblical observant [35:38] Jew. It was Jewish nationhood. Um, and [35:41] so, you know, my grandfather really [35:43] lived those two things. He loved [35:45] America, was passionate about America, [35:47] almost died for America, and yet he also [35:50] knew that the Jewish future was in [35:52] Israel. And that was with very little [35:53] Jewish education. And so that that's how [35:56] I was raised, that we knew that we were [35:58] coming back, that we were coming home. [36:00] It was just a question of when it was [36:01] going to happen. Uh, and so it took me a [36:03] while to get to get here, but I finally [36:06] made it. And uh, I I just I I just so [36:09] badly want to share the joy of of the [36:12] clarity uh that a Jew has living in the [36:15] Jewish state, being part of God's chosen [36:17] nation. You know, thank God we love [36:19] America. We truly do. But there are so [36:21] few Jews in this on this earth. So few [36:23] that are left. We've lost so many [36:25] millions to Hitler, to assimilation. We [36:28] need every last Jew that we can get to [36:31] come to this land to help us settle the [36:33] Galilee. I don't know if you know that [36:34] the Galilee is mostly Arab. We're in [36:37] danger of losing the heartland, the [36:38] Galilee of Israel. Um, this Judea, [36:42] Samaria, these these places are largely [36:44] empty. Um, we desperately need Jews to [36:47] come in order to bring the redemption. [36:49] And so, you know, it doesn't I I hope [36:51] that my fellow American Jews won't hate [36:53] me for writing this book, but I I really [36:56] I I I mean this honestly when I say it [36:58] that I wrote this book out of love um [37:01] out of fear for what is could be [37:02] happening to them in America, but also [37:04] out of the hope and excitement and [37:07] optimism for what they could do, what [37:09] they could accomplish if they join us [37:10] here in the land of Israel. [37:12] >> You know, Doug said something that [37:15] relates back to this this whole dual [37:17] loyalty issue. can't get away from this [37:18] dual loyalty issue. It's really it's [37:20] really what we're talking about here, [37:21] dual identity, dual loyalty, whatever [37:23] you want to call it. [37:25] You know, when Doug, when you just said [37:26] before that, you know, your identity is [37:28] Christian before anything else. So, it [37:31] brought to mind for me the following. [37:32] You know, a Jew living in, you know, one [37:36] of the many countries in the world that [37:37] has oppressed Jews over the centuries [37:41] knew of course that he was living under [37:43] a hostile regime. So there was no [37:45] question that you know where his [37:47] loyalties lied. The whole reason this [37:50] comes up as an issue, the whole reason [37:52] this tension exists is precisely because [37:55] the United States of America has been [37:58] the most hospitable place for Jews ever. [38:01] And that's why we have that issue. [38:03] That's why Jews have been as as as Ellie [38:07] said, such model citizens throughout the [38:09] history of the United States going all [38:11] the way back to the revolution. Jews [38:12] have been absolute model loyal citizens [38:15] throughout. [38:17] But I would hope that just as you Doug, [38:19] if America ever changed so drastically [38:22] that it no that it became opposed to [38:26] Christian values, of course you would be [38:28] loyal to your Christian values before [38:31] you'd be loyal to America. You would [38:32] probably turn on America if America [38:34] turned against against Christianity, as [38:37] you should. And by the same token, if [38:39] America were to turn against Jews, I [38:42] would hope that no Jew would struggle [38:45] over the question where their loyalties [38:47] lie. The entire question results from [38:50] the fact that there's so much overlap [38:52] and so much consistency between Jewish [38:55] values and and American values between [38:58] and or or to go political between US [39:01] interests and Israeli interests. You [39:03] know, we recently had a webinar at [39:05] Israel 365 Action just last week, and [39:08] Dr. David Worms, who's no stranger to [39:10] this podcast, he's been on a few times, [39:12] you know, the great expert in in the [39:14] Middle East. He had such a great [39:16] definition [39:18] uh he had such a great definition of uh [39:20] of of or a great uh explanation of the [39:24] unique relationship between Israel and [39:26] the United States. And he said, "Because [39:28] it is in Israel's interest that the [39:32] United States be strong and be America." [39:36] That meaning America's flourishing and [39:38] America's survival is a benefit to the [39:41] state of Israel. That's a relationship [39:43] that no other country has with the [39:45] United States. No other country can say, [39:48] "We need a strong America. We want a [39:50] strong America. We a strong America is [39:52] is fundamentally in our best interest." [39:55] That's true of the uh that's true of the [39:57] state of Israel fundamentally. I mean [40:00] and and therefore that's that's a much [40:02] that's much deeper than being allies in [40:05] the strategic sense. But what I'm so I [40:07] want to extend that and say that already [40:09] that also speaks to the values. The [40:11] whole reason the tension exists is is is [40:14] this whole issue. But now we live in a [40:16] very strange time. And I want to throw [40:18] this back to you Ellie and see what you [40:19] think of this. We live in a really weird [40:21] time. Is this a terrible time to be a [40:23] Jew? Is this the best time to be a Jew? [40:25] Well, it depends where you live. [40:26] Anti-semitism is rising like never like [40:29] we haven't seen in our lifetimes that [40:31] people haven't seen since World War II. [40:33] Anti-semitism is rising all over the [40:35] Western world, including in the United [40:36] States, tragically. And at the same [40:39] time, the state of Israel is flourishing [40:42] both economically, spiritually, uh, in [40:46] terms of people's people's happiness and [40:48] and the and the strength of the Jewish [40:51] people is like never before. [40:53] That contrast I don't think has ever [40:55] existed. We've never seen anything like [40:57] it. [40:58] >> So the way I see it, the the entire end [41:02] of my book is comparing the book of [41:05] Esther to what we are living through in [41:07] America today. And what's fascinating [41:09] about Esther is that I I believe that [41:11] that Israel and American Jews are living [41:14] two different parts of the book of [41:16] Esther simultaneously. you know, in in [41:18] in March as it started, I think it [41:21] started February 28th when Israel and [41:23] America launched the surprise attack on [41:25] Iran. Um, and it was just unbelievable, [41:28] right? Taking down and and and just the [41:31] incredible victories that we had, right? [41:33] I I felt as an Israeli Jew that we are [41:37] living here like chapter nine at the [41:39] very end of the book of Esther where the [41:41] Jews are defeating the Persians, right? [41:43] The Persians who wish to destroy them. [41:46] But at the very same time, I believe [41:47] that American Jews are living the [41:49] beginning of the book of Esther. You [41:51] see, the book of Esther is all about [41:53] Persian Jews, the vast majority of Jews [41:56] who who did not go back to the land of [41:58] Israel. When Cyrus, the the first king, [42:03] the first true emperor of Persia, when [42:05] he said that the Jews could return to [42:06] the land of Israel, almost nobody went [42:08] back. Very few, right? The vast majority [42:10] of Jews said, "We're very happy in [42:12] Persia." And the scholars essentially [42:15] agree now that the story of Esther [42:17] happened 50 years or so after the [42:20] rebuilding of the second temple. So [42:22] basically millions of Jews living in [42:24] Persia said, "Yeah, no thanks. We're not [42:28] interested in the temple. We're not [42:29] interested in Jerusalem." Right? Meaning [42:31] they were that assimilated. And and Mori [42:34] and Esther, you know, they the simple [42:36] understanding of them is that they were [42:38] pretty assimilated people. Their names [42:40] come from the names of Babylonian gods. [42:42] And so you find today American Jews are [42:45] in a very very similar situation. The [42:47] vast majority of American Jews looked at [42:50] Israel and said, "No thanks. Israel's [42:52] been around for 78 years." And the vast [42:55] majority of American Jews are very happy [42:57] where they are. And so what does God do? [42:59] God sends a hmon. God sends a hmon to [43:02] the Jews of Persia. Not because he hates [43:04] the Jews of Persia, but because he loves [43:06] them. The whole purpose of Hmon is to [43:09] awaken the Jews of Persia and to remind [43:11] them that they are Jews and not [43:13] Persians. And so I think that that's [43:15] what Morai is actually saying to Esther [43:17] in that famous chapter 4 where he says [43:19] you've got to choose Esther. You know, [43:21] will you make the will you make the [43:22] choice to stand with your people, I [43:24] think what he's really saying to her, [43:26] you've got to choose, Esther. Are you [43:28] Persian or are you Jewish? And what [43:30] we're living through in America today is [43:32] the same thing. Tucker Carlson, Candace [43:35] Owens, these are all the modern Hmons, [43:37] right? And they are challenging American [43:40] Jews and forcing American Jews to [43:42] decide, are we Americans or are we Jews? [43:45] Which one comes first? We are. So, we [43:47] are now in chapter 2, chapter 3 of the [43:50] book of Esther in America. [43:54] >> Fascinating. And I It's very interesting [43:56] because I am on the outside looking in [43:59] on a lot of this. And I do have a lot of [44:02] American Jewish friends. I I grew up uh [44:05] with several that you know they they had [44:08] a bar mitzvah or uh you know, but they [44:10] they didn't necessarily identify to your [44:12] point first with their Jewish identity. [44:14] It was just kind of something like a lot [44:16] of my Catholic friends, you know, they [44:17] they were raised Catholic and so yeah, [44:18] I'm kind of Catholic, but we were we [44:21] were all Americans. And so I think for [44:24] what you're saying that is going to be a [44:26] shift. And I like the illustration there [44:28] with the book of Esther. You know, God [44:31] is calling his people home. There's no [44:33] doubt about it. When you look at all the [44:35] signs around us, we've said this the [44:37] last couple episodes. You know, bottom [44:39] line, like Israel has you you have to [44:42] reckon with the fact that God has [44:45] established a state, has brought his [44:46] people home, and I believe it's in the [44:48] next five or 10 years, there will be [44:51] more Jews in Israel than there will be [44:52] anywhere else. uh that that is going to [44:55] crest and and then as a Jew you have to [44:58] reconcile with the fact that that is now [45:00] the case and it has you know has not [45:02] been the case for thousands of years and [45:04] it will now be another sign that God is [45:06] pulling and drawing people home and [45:09] >> I think there's an urgency here you know [45:11] the the book of Esther is the last book [45:13] of the Bible that addresses the Jews of [45:16] exile you know after the book of Esther [45:18] that's basically the last chance where [45:20] God turns to them and and is trying to [45:22] get them to come home. But after that, [45:24] you know, you read about the story of [45:25] Ezra and Nehemiah. Everything is Israel [45:29] oriented. Malachi, right? The the story [45:32] of of exile jury essentially gets [45:34] dropped from the Bible after this last [45:37] chance. And that's part of the the [45:38] countdown here. God is calling American [45:41] Jews. Uh and I think things could get [45:43] uglier before they get better uh in [45:46] America. It's very possible that the day [45:48] will come sooner or later after [45:50] President Trump when being an open [45:53] Zionist when when waving an Israeli flag [45:56] in front of your home will become a [45:57] dangerous thing to do. Uh it's already [45:59] dangerous in many neighborhoods, but the [46:00] day could come very soon where where [46:02] there will be a real cost, you know, in [46:04] your career uh in many different ways [46:07] for standing with Israel. Meaning Jews [46:09] have to choose and it's going only going [46:11] to get harder the longer they wait. [46:14] Right. We have a few minutes left. Only [46:17] a few minutes, Ellie, but I want to get [46:21] to some of the other things that are [46:22] going on at Israel 365. And and of [46:25] course, tell everyone where they can [46:26] find the book. I'm sure they can find it [46:28] in Israel 365 store, but there's [46:30] probably a dedicated site for it as [46:32] well. But also, you're in charge of all [46:34] the educational offerings. I talked [46:36] about Bible Plus before. So could you [46:38] tell us some of the important uh [46:41] initiatives that are taking place right [46:43] now at Israel 365 that our audience [46:45] should know about? [46:46] >> For sure. So first of all, you can find [46:48] the book at Israel 365 store. It's right [46:50] there in the front. It's a it's the [46:52] number one book right now. Um but in [46:54] terms of your question, you know, we are [46:56] at a very exciting point because we're [46:58] right here at the end of May looking at [47:00] the month of June and and the month of [47:02] June is Bible month in America. Uh, and [47:05] it is certainly going to be Bible month [47:07] for Israel 365. Uh, the one of the key [47:10] issues underlying all of the challenges [47:12] that we've been talking about in this [47:14] episode is biblical illiteracy. Right? [47:18] Why is it that younger Christians are [47:19] less supportive of Israel than older [47:21] Christians? The answer comes down to [47:23] this. Right? When I talk to older [47:25] Christians, people in their 50s, 60s, [47:26] 70s, I don't have to tell them the [47:29] story. I don't have to go through the [47:30] basics. I can just mention the story [47:32] that we're about to talk about and [47:34] immediately dive into a deeper analysis [47:37] because of course they know the story of [47:40] the spies or they, you know, they know [47:41] all these stories. They've read all [47:42] these books. But when I talk to younger [47:44] Christians, I first have to spend a fair [47:46] amount of time just telling them what [47:49] happens. They don't know the Hebrew [47:51] Bible at all. Um, and and it's a really [47:54] frightening thing because if you don't [47:56] know the Hebrew Bible, um, so certainly [47:58] from the Jewish perspective, from the [47:59] Israel perspective, that's very [48:01] dangerous because the only reason why [48:04] you would support Israel and and [48:06] understand the significance of the [48:08] American Israeli relationship is if you [48:11] read the Bible and and and know that [48:12] Israel is on every single page of the [48:15] Hebrew Bible. Without that, right, the [48:17] this this whole relationship, it's no [48:19] longer that clear. The truth is it's [48:22] much more important than just the [48:23] American Israel relationship. I mean, [48:25] what will the future of America look [48:27] like when you have more than 50% of [48:30] young people supporting kamas over [48:32] Israel? Meaning, there's there's a moral [48:34] confusion that is happening in America [48:37] today. A lack of understanding of when [48:40] warfare is is is moral and righteous and [48:43] just and when it's not. There's all of [48:45] these things that are dealt with in the [48:46] Bible then. And the Hebrew Bible is [48:48] foundational. It's a it's it's by far [48:51] the biggest part of the Bible for [48:53] Christians. Whereas about 85% I think of [48:55] the Bible is the Hebrew Bible and 15% is [48:57] the New Testament. Without that 85%, [49:01] you know, Americans, American Christians [49:04] are lost. Uh and so you have all these [49:06] people who are declaring their [49:07] Christianity in the public space, you [49:09] know, putting out their, you know, [49:11] Christ is king and and wearing crosses [49:14] and things like that. But if they don't [49:15] know the Bible, then then that kind of [49:17] superficial faith can be extremely [49:20] dangerous. And I'm again it's a topic I [49:22] know that you've spoken about. [49:24] >> It's not just the 8515, [49:26] but the other 15 is dependent on the 85. [49:29] It's quoting the the other part of it. [49:31] You don't have the other 15 without the [49:33] other 85. I I think the Gospel of [49:35] Matthew uh quotes the Hebrew scriptures [49:38] 80 85 times. So like you don't you don't [49:40] have the text without the previous text. [49:43] You can't just read one without the [49:44] other. [49:45] >> Exactly. And so for that reason, you [49:47] know, we are we are doing something [49:49] really exciting for Bible month. We're [49:50] putting out 24 videos, one video in each [49:54] of the 24 books of the Hebrew Bible over [49:56] the course of 30 days. It'll be on the [49:59] Israel Bible YouTube YouTube channel. [50:01] You should definitely check that out. [50:03] You'll find Rabbi Pes there. I'm there [50:05] and plenty of the other educators at [50:07] Israel 365. So, just to be clear, Israel [50:09] 365 News is is the is Rabbi Pes number [50:12] one channel. That's where all the [50:14] geopolitical analysis is. Uh, but then [50:17] the more biblical side of what we do at [50:20] Israel 365. That's all at the Israel [50:22] Bible YouTube channel. So, we'll be [50:24] dropping 24 videos over the course of [50:27] the month. uh and and a lot of these are [50:30] most of these are conversations between [50:32] Jews and Jews, Jews and Christians, all [50:34] talking about really fascinating topics [50:37] within each of these 24 books. It's [50:39] obviously not a comprehensive way to [50:41] study those books. The whole goal is to [50:43] get people excited to peique their [50:46] interest, right? How many people have [50:47] actually ever looked at the Book of [50:49] Chronicles? Well, actually, President [50:51] Trump just spoke about it, so maybe they [50:53] have now. um but you know to get people [50:56] excited about exploring these books on [50:58] their own. And then in the middle of [51:01] this month on June 14th, we're planning [51:02] a major online event to with Jew with [51:06] Jewish leaders and Christian leaders uh [51:08] and some pretty big names that Rabbi [51:10] Pesak is going to be leading uh talking [51:12] all about this biblical literacy issue. [51:15] You why are we suffering through this? [51:17] What can we do about it? Uh it'll be a [51:19] really really important gathering. So [51:21] you more information on that to come. Uh [51:23] but but we have some pretty exciting [51:25] things coming up this month and [51:27] encourage everybody to stay tuned. Come [51:28] to the Israel Bible YouTube channel and [51:31] and see it for yourself. And as Rabbi [51:33] Pesaf said at the beginning of the [51:34] podcast, you could do you could you [51:36] can't do better than than Bible Plus. [51:38] Just hundreds and hundreds of hours of [51:41] actually studying the Bible, tapping [51:43] into it through Hebrew, right? We [51:45] explain it all in a language that [51:46] everyone can understand. Uh, but really [51:48] to be able to tap into the original [51:50] language of the Bible, I think it's [51:52] very, very exciting and encourage [51:53] everyone to check it out. [51:56] >> Excellent. This was so good. Can't wait [51:58] to get my hands on a copy of your new [52:00] book and to stop by and check out those [52:03] 24 videos as they drop. Make sure you're [52:05] subscribed over there on YouTube to the [52:08] Israel 365. Give us that YouTube channel [52:10] one more time and we'll drop it in the [52:12] show notes and we'll make sure we share [52:13] it with our audience. [52:14] >> Yeah, it's the Israel Bible. uh YouTube [52:18] channel. So, check that out. The Israel [52:19] Bible. [52:21] >> Excellent. Make sure you do that. Make [52:22] sure you subscribe. Come on by and see [52:24] Pesak and I on YouTube. And thank you, [52:27] Rabbi Michelle, for being on with us. We [52:29] so appreciate uh you, your insights, and [52:32] really can't wait to get my hands on a [52:34] copy of your book. [52:34] >> Thanks so much for having me. [52:37] >> And thank you for listening to today's [52:38] episode. But if you enjoyed this [52:39] episode, please like, rate, share this [52:41] podcast, subscribe on Patreon, come on [52:43] over, subscribe on YouTube, share it, [52:46] get it out, join us on Facebook, all the [52:48] places. Like it. We absolutely love our [52:51] Shoulderto-Ser family. We love seeing [52:53] you on YouTube. We love you listening to [52:55] us on Apple, Spotify, everywhere you [52:57] listen to podcasts. We love each and [52:59] every one of you and we'll see you on [53:01] our next
