Transcript [00:00] Now, let me I got I [00:02] Did you say 103,000 [00:04] structures? [00:05] >> The Palestinian Authority [00:07] since 2009 publicly in a declared [00:11] program of creating a de facto state, [00:14] called the Fayyad plan. Since 2009, the [00:17] Palestinian Authority has used those [00:18] massive resources simply to annex, [00:22] physically take over Area C, the area [00:25] placed under full Israeli jurisdiction. [00:28] Today, there are over 103,000 [00:31] illegal structures built by the [00:33] Palestinian Authority with foreign money [00:36] on Area C. [00:38] >> So, go on over to Patreon, subscribe to [00:40] Shoulder to Shoulder for just $10 a [00:42] month. We're grateful for our sponsor, [00:44] Israel 365 News, which is the place for [00:47] you to go and get your news and [00:48] information before going to anyone else. [00:50] Go on over to Israel the numbers [00:52] 365news.com [00:55] to check out some of their articles and [00:57] be sure to read Rabbi Pesach and my [00:58] columns. Pesach, each and every week we [01:01] have some incredible products and [01:03] initiatives happening at Israel 365. [01:05] What are we promoting and supporting [01:07] today? [01:10] >> Well, we're we're we're What we're [01:11] promoting is free of charge this week. [01:13] We're just asking people to register for [01:16] a very important webinar that Israel 365 [01:19] is going to be hosting [01:21] this coming Sunday. This coming Sunday, [01:23] just a few days away, a very important [01:25] webinar. It will be held at 2:00 p.m. [01:28] Eastern Time, 9:00 p.m. in Israel. But, [01:30] if you register for the webinar, it does [01:32] not matter if you can't make that time [01:34] because by registering, you will [01:36] guarantee that you get an email to your [01:38] inbox with a link to the full webinar [01:41] immediately after it airs. So, you don't [01:43] want to miss this webinar. The subject [01:45] is Mamdani's New York City, a warning to [01:48] America, and we have an incredible [01:49] panel. On the panel will be former mayor [01:52] of New York, Rudy Giuliani. We will have [01:55] uh the uh up the brilliant young public [01:58] intellectual and commentator from Prager [02:00] University, Shabbas Kestenbaum. [02:02] We will have Robert Spencer, who's been [02:05] on this podcast before, great prolific [02:07] author about Islam and the founder of [02:09] Jihad Watch, and Rabbi Daniel Schonbach, [02:11] who has been so active in the [02:13] anti-Mamdani activism in New York. He's [02:15] also been on the podcast recently [02:16] talking about that. So, it's going to be [02:18] a very exciting webinar hosted by yours [02:20] truly next Sunday, this coming Sunday, [02:23] August 16th, 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time, [02:25] 9:00 p.m. in Israel. And you want to go [02:27] to the link in the description of this [02:29] video if you're watching on YouTube. If [02:31] you are not watching on YouTube, you [02:32] want to go to israel365.com/mamdani, [02:37] israel365.com/mamdani, [02:40] and we will include a link in the [02:42] description of this podcast. So, make [02:44] sure you find that, register, Mamdani's [02:46] New York City, a warning to America, [02:48] next Sunday. [02:50] >> So important, make sure you subscribe to [02:52] that and get on that, register for that, [02:54] and be a part of that. It's going to be [02:57] incredible. [02:58] Well, Pesach, lots going on in the news, [03:01] but we have an exciting guest to get to [03:05] to on today's show. Really excited. Her [03:07] organization has been in the news per [03:09] the EU and Canada and some other [03:11] organizations that would like to [03:13] do all sorts of fining and banning and [03:16] don't particularly care for what they [03:18] stand for. So, let's introduce our guest [03:20] and dive into this conversation. [03:24] >> Absolutely, Doug. Now, usually I would [03:27] read a long bio, but for here, I'm I'm [03:30] going to read the [03:33] the description from the about us page [03:36] of Regavim's website. You understand the [03:38] organization because Naomi is here [03:39] really as one of the leaders and [03:42] spokespeople for Regavim. Regavim is a [03:43] public movement dedicated to the [03:45] protection of Israel's national lands [03:47] and resources. The Regavim movement acts [03:50] to prevent illegal seizure of state land [03:53] and to protect the rule of law and clean [03:55] government in matters pertaining to land [03:58] use policy in the state of Israel. The [04:00] Regavim movement is active in the [04:02] public, parliamentary, and judicial [04:04] spheres through publication of opinion [04:06] and research papers and through the [04:08] dissemination of reports, policy and [04:11] opinion papers, media communications, [04:13] and when necessary, legal action. So, [04:15] they're not just putting out, you know, [04:17] content, you know, in media, they're [04:18] actually fighting the legal fight. We're [04:20] going to hear more about that. Regavim's [04:21] activities are directed toward [04:23] accomplishing one mission, restoring the [04:25] Zionist vision to its primary role in [04:28] the Israeli policy process. As we see [04:30] it, the Zionist vision is first and [04:32] foremost an unapologetic Jewish vision, [04:35] but at the same time, it is a vision [04:36] grounded in humanist values, justice, [04:38] and morality, values expressed in strict [04:41] adherence to high ethical standards and [04:45] clean government. [04:47] And uh Naomi Kahn is the director of the [04:49] international division of Regavim. [04:51] Naomi, welcome to the Shoulder to [04:53] Shoulder podcast. [04:54] >> Thank you for having me. [04:56] >> So, Naomi, I want to get started, you [04:57] know, get right into it. I just read the [04:59] description of Regavim. I'm going to [05:00] tell you from where I sit as someone who [05:02] is who works in media and who pays [05:04] attention to what's going on here, that [05:06] Regavim's reports are indispensable to [05:08] me. I remember you guys put out a report [05:09] a couple years ago about uh how so many [05:13] uh Palestinian police officers, [05:14] Palestinian Authority police officers [05:16] were actually also uh doubling as [05:19] terrorists. That was such an important [05:21] and it really you know, it it it put [05:23] such important information out there. I [05:24] think I made a video about it at the [05:26] time. And the way you guys are always [05:28] standing on the ramparts because they [05:30] don't realize that the battle for the [05:32] land of Israel is ongoing on a daily [05:34] basis, [05:35] uh you know, in because of all the all [05:38] the things that have been done, all the [05:39] ambiguity that was created by the Oslo [05:41] process, and you guys are really at the [05:42] forefront of defending the land of [05:44] Israel. So, I I want to tee you up with [05:47] just something that's been in the [05:48] headlines lately. Apparently, Regavim [05:51] has been sanctioned by the European [05:54] Union. It's not the first time you were [05:55] sanctioned. You were also sanctioned by [05:57] the Biden administration. [05:59] Oh, you were not. You were not. So, [06:00] you'll correct me. And but I know that [06:02] you guys have recently been sanctioned [06:04] by the European Union and Canada joining [06:06] that. [06:07] Tell us the state of affairs there. What [06:09] led to these sanctions? What are the [06:10] sanctions all about? And what is Regavim [06:12] doing about them? And then we'll come [06:13] and then we'll circle back to some of [06:15] the other issues you guys deal with. [06:16] >> Okay. So, [06:19] the sanctions are actually, if they [06:21] weren't so serious, they'd be actually [06:23] funny. But, the European Union and the [06:26] Canadian government have sanctioned [06:28] Regavim not not for anything that we've [06:31] done per se that is illegal. [06:34] Not for anything that they can [06:37] actually pursue in a court of law. So, [06:41] they've simply circumvented the entire [06:43] judicial system and said, "Well, we [06:44] don't like the results of what you do [06:47] and we don't like your policy. We don't [06:49] like your goals. Therefore, we're going [06:50] to sanction you." [06:52] This is a tremendous threat not only to [06:55] civil society organizations in Israel, [06:58] but to freedom of speech everywhere, [07:01] essentially. [07:02] And the reason it's important for me to [07:04] correct your statement before about the [07:06] Biden administration is because we were [07:08] not actually sanctioned by the Biden [07:09] administration, but we went to court. We [07:12] sued the Biden administration for [07:14] imposing sanctions on law-abiding [07:17] organizations and for threatening to [07:20] sanction us even though they did not, [07:23] but for um [07:25] infringing upon the freedom of speech of [07:27] American American Israelis [07:30] and threatening to infringe upon the [07:32] freedom of movement, the freedom to act, [07:35] the freedom essentially the sovereignty [07:37] and the judicial system of a democratic [07:40] ally. This is unprecedented. [07:43] The The Trump administration actually [07:45] rescinded this the sanctions that were [07:48] imposed on Israeli nonprofits on the [07:50] first day of President Trump's current [07:53] term. [07:54] But we continued with the [07:57] lawsuit that we had together with [08:00] and actually a Christian Evangelical [08:03] community in the United States that [08:06] joined us in suing the Biden [08:07] administration from fringing on their [08:09] freedom to [08:11] host us, to support our work, to hear [08:14] our opinion, to entertain the data that [08:16] we collect, and for in general trying to [08:20] stifle opinions with which they don't [08:22] agree. So we came to a settlement with [08:25] the US government in which they said [08:27] that they would not use the tool of [08:29] sanctions against law-abiding [08:31] organization civil society organizations [08:33] in in going forward [08:35] as this would infringe on Israeli [08:37] sovereignty and we felt felt that that [08:38] was a very very important statement. Of [08:40] course it's not binding on future [08:41] administrations, but it is an important [08:43] statement as it stands. [08:46] But the Europeans simply disregarded [08:49] all of that and disregarded the danger [08:51] to freedom of speech and imposed these [08:54] sanctions against us [08:55] >> [snorts] [08:56] >> claiming that they [09:00] they just could not handle the idea of [09:03] us appealing to Israeli courts [09:05] to enforce the law. [09:07] And again, what we try to do is to to [09:09] get the Israeli government to uphold the [09:11] law equally and universally. That should [09:13] not be something that any [09:16] democratic or supposedly [09:20] peace-loving and [09:21] freedom-of-speech-loving and [09:23] human-rights-loving organization should [09:25] try to sanction. But that's precisely [09:27] what they are doing now. [09:28] So [09:30] the sanctions are a very strange thing [09:32] and they relate essentially to our our [09:35] legal work regarding Judea and Samaria, [09:38] but I just want to stress also that [09:40] Regavim is active everywhere in the land [09:42] of Israel that Israel has jurisdiction. [09:44] That includes the Negev, where we are [09:47] most famous, I think, for our attempt to [09:50] resolve land use issues. It in It [09:54] involves the Galilee and Jerusalem and [09:57] everything in between, everywhere where [09:58] the state of Israel has jurisdiction. [10:00] And it includes area C of Judea and [10:02] Samaria, the section placed under full [10:04] Israeli jurisdiction under the Oslo [10:06] framework. [10:08] So, just to [10:10] create the parameters there. [10:12] >> No, absolutely. Well, you said the [10:14] sanctions were [10:15] You said the sanctions were serious. Can [10:17] you elaborate why they're serious? Why [10:19] Why do Why does your organization care [10:21] what Europe thinks and what Canada [10:23] thinks? You're concerned with Israeli [10:25] sovereignty and Israel. So, why why is [10:27] that an issue for you? [10:30] >> So, the sanctions are an essentially an [10:33] economic tool. And what they do is [10:35] prohibit [10:37] businesses and companies, corporations, [10:40] banks, credit cards, Google, Meta, [10:44] Microsoft from doing business with [10:47] sanctioned organizations like Regavim. [10:49] So, we lost access suddenly to our [10:51] Google Drives, our Microsoft accounts, [10:54] our emails. [10:56] We also had our bank accounts [10:59] frozen even though it's illegal for [11:01] Israelis Israeli banks to comply with [11:04] European sanctions. Credit card [11:06] companies would prefer to do business [11:07] with Europe than with tiny little [11:09] organizations of 25 people like Regavim. [11:12] So, they suspended our credit card [11:15] abilities and [11:17] our ability to do transactions, to pay [11:19] salaries to members of our own staff who [11:22] hold European [11:24] European citizenship. [11:26] And they restricted our travel. So, we [11:28] cannot actually our CEO cannot go to [11:31] Europe to present our data, to speak to [11:34] the parliamentarians, to plead our case [11:37] for Israeli sovereignty, and [11:40] for our own ability to collect, analyze, [11:44] and publicize [11:45] information. So, [snorts] [11:48] those are all very very serious things. [11:50] The truth of the matter is that in terms [11:52] of financial harm, [11:54] people are not allowed to donate. [11:57] People who hold European citizenship or [11:59] have assets or bank accounts in Europe [12:01] are not allowed to donate to support our [12:03] work. [12:04] If they do, they can they themselves can [12:06] be sanctioned. So, we've lost quite a [12:09] bit of our donation stream. Again, we [12:11] are a nonprofit that is supported [12:12] completely by donations [12:15] or almost completely by donations. Some [12:16] of it is legal fees for uh [12:19] municipalities that we represent, but [12:21] the vast majority is donations. And some [12:24] of those donations come from European [12:26] Union or they come from Canada. [12:29] And that's a problem, [12:31] but it's costing us a lot more than what [12:33] we're losing to fight this battle. But [12:35] we believe that we're fighting this [12:36] battle not just for ourselves and for [12:38] our reputation and [snorts] for the [12:40] validity of our [12:42] our type of active activism and for our [12:45] goals, but also for the state of Israel [12:47] as a whole because if you take a step [12:49] back and look at the bigger picture, [12:50] what you have here is the European Union [12:53] essentially saying, "Anyone who doesn't [12:55] agree with our vision for the future of [12:59] Judea and Samaria is subject to [13:00] sanctions. We will cut them off at the [13:02] knees." And that means any member of [13:05] Israel's government that votes against a [13:07] Palestinian state, for example, as did [13:10] 99 members of Knesset this past year, [13:14] anybody who serves in the IDF, and the [13:17] IDF is carrying out the policy uh set [13:20] [snorts] forth by the by the government [13:22] itself, [13:23] anyone can be sanctioned at any time. [13:25] And there's no way to foresee it. So, [13:26] the the European Union has placed itself [13:29] beyond or above our judicial system, our [13:32] political system, [13:34] um and our [13:35] individual and national rights. And [13:37] that's a very big problem. So, even [13:39] though it's costing us fortunes of money [13:41] that we don't have to fight these [13:43] sanctions, we are fighting them in the [13:45] name of freedom of speech, and we are [13:47] fighting them in the name of Israeli [13:49] sovereignty. [13:51] >> Naomi, [13:53] I want to now [13:55] educate our audience a bit about some of [13:57] the issues that you're actually dealing [13:58] with. They got the big picture, and we [14:00] know that you're fighting for Judea and [14:01] Samaria, but I know that you guys are [14:04] monitoring and fighting things like [14:06] illegal um illegal construction, uh [14:09] foreign interference by foreign foreign [14:12] governments interfering in what's going [14:14] on in the ground in Judea and Samaria, [14:16] and other such things. Could Could you [14:18] give us a few um you know, anecdotes and [14:20] you know, real-life situations that you [14:22] know, that we can bite off and chew so [14:24] that our audience can really understand [14:26] what Regavim is doing? [14:28] >> Sure. [14:29] So, as I started out with, Regavim is a [14:33] champions equal and universal [14:35] enforcement of the law. What is the law [14:37] in Judea and Samaria? Essentially, the [14:40] Oslo framework created a a legal [14:42] framework in which both the Palestinian [14:44] Authority and the State of Israel are [14:46] supposed to operate towards creating a [14:49] space for peaceful [snorts] coexistence [14:51] of some kind. [14:53] Um it's important for your viewers to [14:55] understand that the Oslo Accords do not [14:57] what they don't say, [14:59] um and that's unfortunately been I think [15:02] um [15:03] buried under so much of the static in in [15:06] the past 25 years. [15:08] The Oslo Accords never say anything [15:09] about a Palestinian state. What they say [15:11] is that it will create a a a a [15:14] possibility for autonomous for self-rule [15:17] for the Palestinian Arabs in Judea and [15:19] Samaria, [15:20] uh and create a pathway towards a [15:22] negotiated resolution, whatever that may [15:25] be. [15:26] So, [15:27] uh, you can either support or not [15:29] support the idea of full statehood for [15:31] Palestinian Arabs in Judea and Samaria, [15:33] but either way, [15:35] there is a a legal framework that both [15:37] sides committed to. The Palestinian [15:39] Authority has been, since the day that [15:41] those accords were signed in 1995, [15:44] since that day, has been violating those [15:47] accords. [15:48] Uh, that should come as no surprise to [15:50] anyone, but it has violated every single [15:52] clause in those accords. Everything from [15:56] developing its own water so- sources, [15:58] developing its sewage treatment, dealing [16:00] with education, uh, reducing, or [16:03] removing incitement and anti-Semitism [16:06] from their curricula, creating a system [16:08] of health care, um, education and [16:11] welfare for the people under its [16:13] jurisdiction, creating housing [16:14] solutions, building a future. [16:17] Uh, not one single one of those things [16:19] has been done. Despite the fact that the [16:21] Palestinian Authority has been, since [16:23] the day it was created, the largest per [16:26] capita recipient of foreign aid in the [16:29] world. So, where's all that foreign aid [16:31] going? We asked ourselves that question, [16:33] as well. And what we see on the ground, [16:35] as we do our work, and we we have field [16:38] coordinators out on the ground every day [16:39] to see what's happening, and what we see [16:42] is that the the Palestinian Authority, [16:44] since 2009, publicly, in a declared [16:48] program of creating a de facto state, [16:52] called the Fayyad plan, since 2009, the [16:54] Palestinian Authority has used those [16:56] massive resources simply to annex, [16:59] physically take over, Area C, the area [17:02] placed under full Israeli jurisdiction. [17:05] Today, there are over 103,000 [17:08] illegal structures built by the [17:10] Palestinian Authority with foreign money [17:13] on Area C, on state land. [17:16] >> hold on, pause, pause. Pa- I got I [17:19] Did you say 103,000 [17:22] structures? [17:23] >> Correct. Yes. [17:26] >> what that is per capita of the people is [17:28] insane cuz we're talking about buildings [17:30] here. And also the whole area isn't that [17:32] large. You're talk 103,000 structures in [17:35] Area C. Let me just make sure everyone [17:36] understands this. Area C [17:39] in the Oslo Accords. There's Area A, [17:41] which is [17:42] Right. A is full Palestinian Authority [17:44] control, B is some sort of mixed blend, [17:46] and then C is full Israeli sovereignty. [17:48] But a lot of that is open hills, open [17:50] valleys, open areas. And the Palace and [17:53] what we have now is over 103,000 [17:57] >> Yes. [17:58] >> illegal [18:00] structures built by the Palestinian [18:02] Authority on Area C [18:05] in order to kind of like just expand [18:08] what's part of the Palestinian [18:09] Authority. It's a It's an illegal [18:10] seizure of what's supposed to be under [18:13] Israeli sovereignty. Okay, that's what [18:14] I'm sorry. I had to pause you just to [18:15] make sure that that's settled in. All [18:17] right, sorry I cut you off. Keep going. [18:19] >> Let me give you an even more [18:20] mind-boggling [18:22] statistic. It is a fact, right? And this [18:24] is what we do. We measure We We document [18:28] every single structure. We investigate [18:29] if it's legal, if it has permits, if [18:31] it's not, who built it, [18:34] who's funding it, who is living in it, [18:36] since when, [18:38] what the status of the land is. [18:40] But we took a step back at one point and [18:42] we said, "Well, [18:43] the leftist organizations and the [18:46] European Union and Peace Now and certain [18:48] American governments will say, 'Well, of [18:50] course the Palestinians built illegally [18:53] in Area C. They have to live somewhere, [18:56] and Israel doesn't give them building [18:57] permits.' So, we said, 'Okay, let's [18:59] check this out. [19:01] Why are they building in Area C?' So, we [19:03] actually did an aerial survey of Areas A [19:06] and B, the areas under Palestinian [19:08] Authority control. And what we found was [19:10] that 67% [19:12] 67 nearly 70% [19:15] >> [snorts] [19:15] >> of the land already under Palestinian [19:18] Authority jurisdiction [19:20] is empty. [19:22] Ready for development. No no no need for [19:25] Israeli involvement whatsoever. [19:28] Uh but instead they use all their [19:30] resources to take over areas. [19:34] So, why does Israel not give permits to [19:36] Arabs to build in Area C? The whole [19:39] concept of the Oslo division was that [19:42] they wouldn't have to. If you want to [19:44] divide the territory between the two [19:46] peoples, stop mixing the populations, [19:48] right? So, those 103,000 structures are [19:51] not just a massive quantity, they're [19:54] also a massively threatening quality [19:58] because they're built along the back [20:02] fences of existing Israeli communities. [20:04] They're built [20:06] Judea and Samaria off from the rest of [20:09] Israel. [20:10] They're built to create a land bridge [20:13] between areas of Palestinian Authority [20:15] control and to threaten Israel's eastern [20:18] border with Jordan. [20:20] So, all these things are strategically [20:22] placed, [20:24] massively funded, and have taken over [20:27] huge chunks of the areas under Israeli [20:29] jurisdiction. [20:31] That's That's Those are facts that [20:34] cannot be denied. [20:35] >> Can I ask a question just to clarify? [20:38] >> does control [20:40] >> Um so, how many I I've read an article [20:44] and I was trying to find it here. How [20:46] many of those are just spontaneously [20:48] they're they're they're happen to build [20:50] there and how many how much of it is [20:52] strategic that the Palestinian [20:54] Authority's actually strategically [20:57] building in Area C and how much of it is [21:00] just by mistake or spontaneous and it it [21:03] just sort of happens? [21:06] >> Okay. So, if it were spontaneous and [21:08] just sort of happens, then people would [21:11] build not in places where there's a [21:13] threat of demolition, [21:15] not in places where they are under [21:17] constant uh surveillance of the IDF or [21:21] under uh constant threat of roadblocks [21:25] and blockades and [21:29] access problems and all of those things. [21:31] They would build in the 67% of areas A [21:34] and B that are empty, available, and [21:36] they would have no need for any contact [21:38] whatsoever with the Israeli authorities. [21:40] They would not be subject to the IDF or [21:42] to the civil administration. They would [21:44] have full access to their schools and [21:46] their hospitals and their community [21:48] centers that are run by the Palestinian [21:50] Authority. So, when you look at the map, [21:52] and this is what we do, we create maps, [21:54] and you see where these 103,000 [21:56] structures are, it becomes very, very [21:59] clear that they're strategic. But, we're [22:01] no geniuses. We don't need to figure [22:03] this out. You know why? Because the [22:05] Palestinian Authority declares publicly [22:07] exactly what it is going to do, and then [22:11] it does it. In 2009, the Prime Minister [22:14] of the Palestinian Authority announced [22:16] that the Oslo framework was no longer [22:18] binding, would not be respected, and [22:21] areas A and B are the exact same as area [22:24] C, and all that remains to create a [22:27] Palestinian state is to ignore the Oslo [22:31] obligations that it undertook and to [22:34] simply take over physically area C. [22:38] The European Union began helping the [22:40] Palestinian Authority in 2009 and 2010 [22:44] plan out the entire area of Judea and [22:48] Samaria for a Palestinian state. [22:50] They have whole planning regimes [22:53] that completely ignore the existence of [22:56] Israeli communities, of IDF bases, of [22:59] security elements, of [23:02] any borders with other countries, simply [23:05] wiped it all out, planned out the entire [23:08] Palestinian state there, and now slowly [23:10] but surely are populating those plans. [23:13] So, it's not as if, you know, all all [23:16] the Israeli government needed to do was [23:18] to listen to what the Palestinians said, [23:21] believe that they meant what they said, [23:23] and take them at their word they were [23:25] going to do what they said, which is [23:26] exactly what they're doing. [23:29] >> Naomi, [23:31] you mentioned the funding. You said [23:33] they're heavily they're very well [23:34] funded, and you mentioned that the EU [23:36] started helping them. So, [23:39] talk about the funding, [23:41] like the money trail of of what's behind [23:44] all this, where it's coming from, which [23:46] countries are involved, or what entities [23:48] are involved in that funding apparatus, [23:50] uh and and then if if you if you will, [23:53] if you could talk about [23:55] what what responsibility the Israeli [23:57] government has for letting this happen, [23:59] meaning we are there, and if you're [24:02] aware of it, if Regavim's aware of it, [24:04] then the IDF's aware of it, then the [24:05] Israeli government's aware of it. And is [24:07] this just a matter of Israel not having [24:09] the will to, you know, to enforce its [24:13] will on on the on the uh on the [24:15] situation? [24:17] >> I'll start from the first question, the [24:18] funding. First of all, it's not hard to [24:21] follow the money trail when the European [24:23] Union stamps each one of these illegal [24:26] structures with a sponsorship sign. [24:29] And we found some sponsorship signs all [24:32] over Judea and Samaria declaring that [24:34] this structure was funded, created, [24:37] built, supported by the European Union. [24:40] So, [24:41] >> Oh, they don't even they don't even hide [24:42] it. They're just they're, you know, they [24:43] don't [24:44] >> They do the opposite. They believe that [24:45] putting an EU sticker on the side of an [24:48] illegal structure will give it [24:50] diplomatic protection. And in many, many [24:52] cases, they're absolutely right because [24:54] the the of Israel, and this is the [24:56] answer to your second question. The [24:58] state of Israel, it's not just they [25:00] don't have the will, even when they have [25:01] the will, there is very very serious [25:05] international pressure. [25:07] Um [25:08] when Israel does pull down a structure, [25:10] and this is very rare, [25:12] or it was at least until the current [25:14] government came into power. On the rare [25:16] occasions where Israel did pull down an [25:18] illegal structure, the West Bank [25:21] Protection Consortium of the European [25:23] Union, it's a consortium of the eight [25:26] eight main [25:27] >> [snorts] [25:27] >> um [25:28] country member states of the EU, they [25:31] actually tried to sue the state of [25:32] Israel for compensation. And they [25:34] actually threatened to to bring Israel [25:36] up on war crimes charges for pulling [25:39] down illegal structures that they built [25:42] on Israeli state land without permits. [25:44] And this has been going on for years. No [25:46] one's been reporting it, but we've been [25:48] actually suing the government of Israel [25:51] for failing to take responsibility [25:53] either to prevent the the construction [25:56] or to actually enforce the law against [25:59] it when it does slip through the slip [26:01] through the net. So, we've gone to court [26:05] does many dozens of times. We choose [26:08] uh [26:09] sort of exemplar cases. [26:11] Um so, for example, a case that many [26:13] people may have heard of, it's been in [26:15] the news for over nearly 20 years, [26:19] uh and that is Khan al-Ahmar. It's a [26:21] small collection of uh structures on [26:23] Highway 1, the highway that leads from [26:26] Jerusalem to the Dead Sea. [26:28] And uh this illegal [26:31] collection of shacks, huts, whatever, [26:34] it's built in in the in the sewage [26:37] drainage ravine of an Israeli community, [26:40] literally abutting the main highway. Um [26:45] most of the people who were living in [26:46] this illegal encampment came to an [26:48] agreement with the state of Israel. The [26:50] The of Israel gave them free plots of [26:52] land and developed plots of land for [26:55] their relocation so that they would not [26:57] continue to squat on the side of the [26:58] road even though again these are not [27:00] Israeli citizens. They are [27:02] under the jurisdiction of the [27:03] Palestinian Authority but the state of [27:05] Israel came to an agreement with them [27:07] and the last few holdouts there became [27:09] the champions of a huge campaign funded [27:12] by the European Union. [27:15] EU lawyers come to court to defend to to [27:20] force essentially these people to remain [27:22] in these subhuman conditions because it [27:24] is a tremendous [27:26] leverage point against the state of [27:27] Israel. [27:28] So this collection of illegal structures [27:31] with EU symbols on the side and constant [27:33] visits by diplomats from Europe and all [27:36] kinds of international campaigns is [27:39] still standing there even though six [27:41] times this the High Court of Justice has [27:43] found that the people who are living [27:45] there are not Israel's responsibility. [27:47] They are living there illegally. The [27:49] land is state land. It does not belong [27:51] to them. They've never claimed that it [27:52] does. [27:53] But in any case they're still there [27:55] because massive international pressure [27:58] has kept the state of Israel from [28:00] risking being taken up on war crimes [28:02] charges if they remove them. So now that [28:05] Israel has already been brought up on [28:07] war crimes charges we are asking the [28:08] next question. What are they going to do [28:10] to us next? [28:12] You know, I mean all the things they've [28:13] threatened, they did anyway. So it's [28:16] time for Israel to actually do what [28:18] needs to be done, to behave like a [28:20] grown-up country, to take our future [28:23] by the horns and say this is a country [28:25] of law and order. We have a justice [28:26] system. We have rules. If the other [28:29] side's not going to obey them, if [28:31] they're not going to respect them, we're [28:34] going to at least uphold them on our [28:36] side. And start doing that. So that's [28:39] what we tried to do in our legal [28:40] actions. We tried to force the [28:43] government of Israel to stand up and [28:45] take responsibility. [28:49] >> And why do you think it is that [28:51] >> there's Europeans don't like it. [28:54] >> Yeah, why why do you think it is that [28:55] the Europeans don't want to hear the the [28:59] facts that you have to present? I [29:01] understand they don't like it. I [29:02] understand they've already you know, [29:04] they've got their money on a certain [29:05] horse in the race, but ultimately, [29:08] you [clears throat] know, what why don't [29:10] they want to hear the information that [29:11] you're going to present? Are they [29:12] unaware? Are they ignorant? Do they [29:14] really just want to stick their head in [29:16] the ground about it? What is so [29:17] disconcerting about the information you [29:20] would bring to the table? [29:24] >> Um well, first of all, [29:27] just on the surface, [29:29] our our reports prove that they've bet [29:32] on the wrong horse. [29:34] Uh they've become so heavily invested in [29:36] that horse that they can no longer see [29:40] any other way forward. [29:42] Um [29:43] they have [29:45] invested [29:46] against the state of Israel and in the [29:49] idea of Palestinian statehood for so [29:51] long, they have no other card that they [29:54] want to play. They [snorts] have no [29:56] other vision other than that one. [29:58] And that vision will involve the [30:01] destruction of the Jewish state. There [30:03] is no question about it. They're they're [30:05] not even talking about at this point, [30:07] it's now [30:09] um [30:10] They're not even talking about a [30:11] two-state solution generally. They're [30:13] talking about a one-state solution, and [30:14] that one state is has no no no room for [30:16] Jews. [30:17] Uh if if you say you support a [30:19] Palestinian state from the river to the [30:20] sea, look at a map. [30:22] There's nothing between the river and [30:24] the sea. [30:25] Uh [30:26] there's nothing else other than the [30:27] state of Israel. And if you replace that [30:29] with a Palestinian state, [30:32] what you're essentially saying is that [30:34] you are in favor of wiping out the [30:36] Jewish state and uh disappearing all of [30:39] the Jewish people who live here and not [30:40] allowing any more to come. But uh why [30:44] why are they so invested in this? [30:46] I'll tell you. [30:47] I think I think I'm among friends here [30:49] and I'll I'll tell you what my theory [30:50] is. I don't think it's actually a [30:52] theory. [30:53] Why is there so much anti-Israel [30:55] sentiment? What is the story behind this [30:58] red-green alliance is what everyone's [31:00] calling it, right? How is it possible [31:03] that jihadist Islamic Sharia-supporting [31:07] fanatics on one side are teaming up with [31:10] raging extreme left anarchist liberals [31:14] on the other side. It just makes no [31:16] sense in the real world, right? There's [31:18] [snorts] one thing that they have in [31:19] common and [31:21] the thing that they have in common is [31:24] everything that the state of Israel [31:25] stands for. [31:26] We are a nation-state of an ancient [31:29] people with a distinct identity. They [31:31] can't stand that. We are a faith-based [31:34] people. [31:35] They can't stand that. [31:36] We are a family-oriented country. They [31:40] can't stand that. All of the things that [31:44] both of these sides detest come together [31:48] in what Israel is. [31:50] And [31:51] so we are the enemy. But if the West [31:54] doesn't wake up and realize what it is [31:57] that they are supporting, you're [31:58] essentially pulling the rug out from [32:00] under their under their own feet because [32:03] the things that make Israel unique are [32:05] the things that serve as the foundation [32:07] for Western civilization. Um and it's in [32:10] danger. [32:12] >> Yeah, Naomi, speaking of the endangering [32:14] of Western civilization, you know, one [32:16] one issue that you guys also deal with [32:18] that's very close to my heart is the [32:20] issue of protecting biblical [32:22] archaeology. I think it's a it's a [32:23] massive miss by the by the state of [32:27] Israel that that more resources haven't [32:29] been put into this. Let me explain what [32:30] I'm talking about. A lot of our of our [32:33] audience probably is not aware that [32:35] there is an academic boycott against [32:39] biblical archaeology coming out of Judea [32:41] and Samaria. That means that if some [32:42] young archaeologist decides to do a [32:44] study of of a of a of a [32:48] of a [32:49] of a site in Judea and Samaria from the [32:51] Hebrew Bible, he could find himself [32:54] you know, losing his job. He's going to [32:56] have a hard time finding getting that [32:57] paper published. And [snorts] and and it [33:00] this might seem like a sort of quirky [33:01] issue like we have bigger fish to fry, [33:03] but it's actually very important because [33:05] what it means is that in the official [33:06] records in academia, they try to erase [33:09] the record of of uh [33:12] of Jewish history and biblical history [33:14] in the land of Israel. And this is an [33:15] ongoing fight. I know it's been going [33:17] on. I know that the that the Heritage [33:18] Ministry was trying to get involved in [33:20] it at some point. I don't know exactly [33:21] where things stand, but but you guys [33:23] have been involved in this as well [33:26] because the our enemies know this and [33:28] they've been trying to undermine uh [33:31] they've been trying to undermine the [33:32] biblical archaeology in Judea and [33:34] Samaria. You know, what can you tell us [33:35] about this issue and what Regavim's [33:37] involved with right now? [33:38] >> So, Regavim's involvement is a very very [33:41] natural offshoot of our fieldwork. The [33:43] way we work is we are out on the ground [33:45] as I mentioned every single day seeing [33:47] what's going on all through the country. [33:49] But in Judea and Samaria, think about it [33:51] for a moment. This area, it's a very [33:53] small piece of of planet Earth and it is [33:56] the most dense in um archaeology [34:00] of any place in the world. This is where [34:02] the Bible actually happened. This is you [34:05] know, you scratch the ground and my kids [34:07] used to go out into the backyard when [34:09] our neighborhood was still new and [34:11] scratch around in the dirt and they [34:12] would come up with clay seals 2,000 [34:15] years old, you know, and and [34:18] pieces of uh Iron Age pottery and [34:20] whatever. This is where it happened and [34:22] this is where we are. So, the idea that [34:25] the Israel Antiquities Authority has no [34:27] jurisdiction over what is known as the [34:30] Green Line in the areas that were [34:32] occupied illegally by Jordan for 19 [34:34] years, is outrageous. Because this is, [34:37] you know, I mean, there's not a whole [34:38] lot of archaeology in Tel Aviv, [34:40] but there is archaeology in Shiloh, and [34:42] in Jerusalem, and in Ai Lee, and in all [34:45] of the places here. I mean, my my [34:48] looking [snorts] at my window right here [34:49] to to on this side, I'm looking at where [34:52] the sun stood still in Gibeon. This is [34:54] where it happened. That is what my [34:56] neighborhood is and all the battles of [34:58] the Hasmonean dynasty happened just in [35:01] the fields just outside of my window [35:03] over here. So, [35:05] it's [clears throat] important, but our [35:06] field coordinators, when they're out in [35:08] the field, [35:09] monitoring illegal construction, also [35:11] see what is happening to archaeological [35:13] sites that are either unprotected, [35:16] insufficiently protected, or have been [35:19] placed through incredible stupidity and [35:22] short-sightedness and naivete, [35:24] in the hands of the Palestinian [35:25] Authority. The Palestinian Authority has [35:27] systematically [35:29] erased the physical record of the Jewish [35:32] connection to Judea and Samaria in [35:34] hundreds of cases. [35:36] There are things that are explicit in [35:38] the in the Oslo framework, a full annex [35:41] of areas of sites of tremendous [35:44] historical importance to the Jewish [35:47] people that were placed for safekeeping [35:50] in the hands of the Palestinian [35:51] Authority. If I described to you what [35:53] they have done to some of these places, [35:54] you won't believe me. The site of [35:56] Joshua's altar, for example, parts of [35:58] the retaining wall of one of the most [36:00] ancient cultic sites in Israel, one the [36:03] place where the covenant was renewed as [36:08] the Israelites entered into the land of [36:10] Israel, was ground up to make gravel to [36:14] for condominiums on the on the site of [36:17] Joshua's altar by the Palestinian [36:19] Authority. [36:20] Um you have, you know, I was there and [36:23] saw with my own eyes uh, Palestinian [36:25] Arabs barbecuing on Joshua's altar. [36:29] Um, the the disregard is [36:32] fatal. [36:34] Um, the abuse of [36:37] the trust in which uh, what that was [36:40] that was placed in their hands is [36:43] unspeakable. And the state of Israel has [36:46] in [36:47] in the hope of uh, somehow or other [36:49] gaining international favor, respected [36:53] the Palestinian Authority's [36:54] jurisdiction. And that has caused [36:57] catastrophic [36:58] destruction of irreplaceable [37:00] archaeological sites. The Palestinian [37:02] Authority purposely builds illegally or [37:06] legally uh, on sites of incredible [37:10] archaeological uh, finds and tremendous [37:14] religious and historical significance. [37:17] And unfortunately, the United Nations [37:19] and UNESCO are complicit in this. So, [37:21] they are now renaming some of our most [37:23] sacred places as Palestinian heritage [37:26] sites, including the Cave of the [37:27] Patriarchs, including the Temple Mount, [37:30] including Solomon's Pools where they [37:31] want to now build a mosque, including [37:34] the list goes on and on. [37:36] So, these are things that we come across [37:38] during our field work and we have [37:40] demanded that the government of Israel [37:42] certainly take responsibility for the [37:44] areas [37:45] um, that are in on in Israeli [37:47] jurisdiction, but also to demand [37:50] certainly from their benefactors in [37:52] Europe that they cease and desist from [37:54] supporting this travesty and this [37:57] violation of biblical history. [38:01] >> You know, you said seeing with your own [38:03] eyes and I think that's so important. [38:05] You can see these things with your own [38:06] eyes. I have had the privilege of uh, [38:09] leading now uh, almost 10 trips to to [38:12] Israel. I've brought uh, close to a [38:14] thousand people um, and a number of [38:16] those are pastors who have come for the [38:19] very first time. About half of those are [38:20] pastors. I've I've the privilege of [38:22] being there, watching their eyes be [38:24] opened and seeing things for the first [38:26] time and touching the soil and standing [38:29] in places where these amazing things [38:31] happen. If you were to take a group of [38:34] pastors, what would be the one thing you [38:36] would show them to help them understand [38:39] what you're illustrating and talking [38:41] about. What where what what site would [38:43] you take them to? What place would you [38:44] take them to so they could see it with [38:46] their own eyes? [38:49] >> Cool. [38:51] That's [38:53] very tough. I'll tell you, I recently [38:55] took um some very dear friends [38:59] Christians from Texas [39:01] uh out to Netiv Ha'avot [39:04] in Gush Etzion. [39:06] So, Gush Etzion as you approach [39:09] Jerusalem from the south [39:10] just outside of Neve Daniel, there's a a [39:14] site that First of all, there's Roman [39:17] milestones there marking the path to [39:19] Jerusalem. [39:20] And there are ritual baths, public [39:23] ritual baths that are unlike anything [39:27] you've ever seen, mikvahs, right? But [39:29] these were public mikvahs. [39:31] >> I've seen them. [39:33] >> The unusual thing about them isn't that [39:35] it's a mikvah. What's unusual about it [39:37] is it's a mikvah not near any community. [39:40] There was There was no [39:42] village around it. [39:44] It was there simply for the pilgrims' [39:46] use. This was the last stop before they [39:49] ascended to Jerusalem. [39:51] It's as the crow flies, it's 2 and 1/2 [39:53] about 2 and 1/2 miles outside of [39:55] Jerusalem. This was the last stop where [39:57] people on their way up to the Temple [39:59] Mount would stop, immerse themselves, [40:02] prepare themselves physically and [40:03] spiritually to ascend to the holiest [40:06] place on Earth for us. [40:08] And uh [40:10] it's still there [40:11] and it's still intact. And the only [40:13] reason it's still intact and the only [40:14] reason that you can stand there and look [40:16] at the Temple Mount and look at the old [40:19] city from there, see where you're going, [40:21] see where you've come from, is because [40:23] Israel is in charge. And therefore, when [40:25] you look in the direction that the [40:26] pilgrims traveled, you see churches and [40:30] you see mosques and they're all [40:32] functioning and they're all preserved [40:34] and protected, but that's only because [40:37] they're under Israeli jurisdiction. When [40:39] they are not, [40:40] for example, um the the monastery of St. [40:43] George on the other side of Jerusalem, [40:46] every time there's Muslim rule, the [40:48] monastery has to be abandoned. Uh so, [40:51] they had to open within the the [40:52] sanctuary of the old city walls uh [40:54] sister monastery. But, as soon as [40:56] Israeli rule, Jewish rule returns to the [40:58] area, religious life is once again [41:01] reinstated for all religions. So, I [41:04] would take them to those places, to to [41:07] the the the [41:09] the path of the patriarchs of the [41:10] pilgrimage [41:11] uh just south of Jerusalem and to St. [41:15] George's monastery, [41:17] carved into the rock of the mountains [41:19] east of Jerusalem, um [41:22] and see what commitment to freedom of [41:26] religion looks like to us. [41:28] >> N- Naomi, you just raised such a a [41:30] beautiful and important point and I want [41:32] to underscore it for, you know, for [41:33] everyone listening here. And that is [41:35] that what you guys are doing, you know, [41:38] trying to, you know, working to protect [41:40] the the [41:43] the Jewish sovereignty, the Israeli [41:44] sovereignty [41:45] of these places in Judea and Samaria is [41:48] not just about, and for anyone who's [41:50] considering, you know, you know, are you [41:52] going to support Regavim or, you you [41:53] know, check out their website and see [41:55] how you can get involved, understand [41:57] that you're defending biblically based [42:00] Western civilization. Every Jew and [42:02] Christian, every Bible believing person [42:04] who understands that the Bible is our [42:06] heritage, the Bible is our history, the [42:08] Bible is where we all come from, Jews [42:10] and Christians alike, that these places [42:14] and what they mean and what they are is [42:16] under threat is under threat by those [42:19] who who seek to destroy all of that all [42:21] of that history. So you guys are [42:23] actually defending not just the Jewish [42:24] people or the land of Israel or the or [42:26] the state of Israel. You're you're [42:28] really defending biblically based [42:30] civilization against against the same [42:33] onslaught that is trying to destroy it [42:35] throughout Europe and in other places in [42:37] the world. This you know and you know [42:39] when you brought up the Red Green [42:40] Alliance before I thought to myself, [42:41] wait a second, what does it have to do [42:42] with Judea and Samaria? But you're [42:43] absolutely right because in the big [42:45] picture what you guys are doing is about [42:47] [snorts] [42:48] you know it's about the Bible. It's [42:49] about God's land and what that means to [42:51] all of us. [42:52] >> Great. [42:54] Absolutely. [42:56] We come across a very strange [42:57] combination of forces all the time. [43:00] We have [43:02] >> [snorts] [43:02] >> um [43:02] EU funded {quote} {unquote} nonprofits. [43:05] They're actually foreign agent [43:08] civil society organizations operating in [43:11] Israel that feed information back to the [43:14] European Union [43:16] and that information is used to defame [43:18] Israel, to demonize every person living [43:21] here, to [43:23] demoralize [43:25] Israelis and their supporters, to [43:28] undermine the entire the the validity of [43:32] the of Zionism as a concept. Um and so [43:36] these these are far left organizations [43:39] um that are in full alliance with the [43:43] Islamists and that combination wouldn't [43:46] make sense anywhere else, but it's what [43:49] is our it's our lived reality here every [43:51] day. [43:53] >> [snorts] [43:53] >> Well, you know as our time is winding [43:56] down, several of our listeners I'm sure [43:59] are going to want to go to your website. [44:00] They're going to want to connect with [44:02] you on social media and elsewhere. Give [44:05] them your kind of handles, your website, [44:07] where they can go to support and and all [44:09] that information. [44:13] >> Great, thank you. So, our website is [44:15] called is regavim.org, [44:17] r e g a v i m dot o r g. [44:21] Uh we're very active on social media. [44:23] Look for Regavim ENG as in English, [44:26] Regavim ENG on Facebook, on X, on [44:31] Instagram. I think we're also on TikTok. [44:34] I try to stay away from that, but I have [44:36] uh very very bright, very young people [44:38] who who try to get our messages out on [44:41] those platforms as well. [44:43] Um they're a bit scary to me. [44:44] Uh I don't I come from an academic [44:47] background. So, for me anything less [44:49] than 6,000 words is a soundbite. And for [44:52] them anything more than 60 words is [44:54] enough. So, we we don't meet in the [44:57] middle. [44:58] >> So, well Naomi, let me just let me just [45:00] add for everyone also that the website [45:02] is is not just like a kind of empty [45:05] organization website with an about us [45:07] page. It's much more than that. There [45:08] are studies there, all the issues that [45:10] you guys cover, recent news items about [45:12] what you guys are doing. There's a lot [45:14] of information. This is a very important [45:16] organization. Anyone who's involved in [45:18] advocacy for Israel, who cares about [45:20] Israel, who's praying for [snorts] you [45:22] know, for for the nation of Israel and [45:24] the land of Israel, Regavim is an [45:26] organization you got to keep your eye on [45:27] and get plugged into. I'm so honored [45:29] that you that you joined us today, [45:30] Naomi. I hope we'll have you back in the [45:32] future when there's more headlines about [45:33] what you guys are up to. [45:35] >> Thank you. I hope they'll be good [45:37] headlines for a change. [45:39] Thank you so much. [45:40] >> Yes. [45:41] >> Well, thank you and thank you for [45:42] listening to today's episode. If you [45:44] enjoyed this episode, please like, rate, [45:46] and share this podcast. Subscribe on [45:48] Patreon. Come on over to Facebook, like [45:49] our page, join our group. So, we would [45:51] love to connect with more and more of [45:53] our Shoulder to Shoulder family and [45:54] we'll see you on our next episode.
