Transcript [00:00] Dr. Elliot Davidid, it is great to have [00:01] you on the Israel 365 news podcast here [00:04] at the National Conservatism Conference [00:06] in Jerusalem. How are you? [00:08] >> Great. Great to be here. Amazing [00:09] conference [00:10] >> that it was. Thank you. Um, let's uh you [00:14] are an expert on AI. That is what you've [00:18] been known for. That is what your [00:19] doctorate is in. Um, I think the public [00:23] is starting to AI has been around for a [00:26] while. um when we're talking about large [00:29] language models, the statistics and the [00:31] relationship between words uh which is [00:34] like the heart of AI that's been around [00:36] for the for a while but I think over the [00:38] last year or so um AI has become [00:42] normalized. What I mean by that is [00:44] regular people in their jobs in their [00:47] households, they're starting to use AI [00:50] to perform regular tasks, right? Which [00:52] I, you know, like people would write [00:55] essays or have AI and it was like slop [00:57] filler, but now it's like, oh, I want to [00:59] compare it to spreadsheets. Let me put [01:01] it into AI and it actually gives me So, [01:03] where do you see the future of AI going? [01:07] >> That's an amazing observation and [01:08] actually that's the most important [01:10] observation. If you want to predict [01:12] where AI is going to be in a year from [01:14] now, two years from now, a decade or two [01:16] from now, the best way to do that is to [01:19] extrapolate from what happened. It took [01:21] us decades until AI got to a point in [01:26] which for most use cases it is even [01:28] relevant. When Chad GPT was first [01:31] released, it was cute, right? We used to [01:34] use it for some mediocre [01:37] slop and we used to laugh at its [01:38] hallucinations. [01:40] A year later it suddenly passes the [01:43] medical uh the the medical certification [01:47] with the lowest grade possible barely [01:49] passing. A year after that it is already [01:52] getting score of 90 something. [01:54] >> Wow. [01:54] >> And this year there already a bunch of [01:56] medical papers showing that it is better [01:58] in diagnosis than most physicians in [02:01] most tasks. So if we extrapolate from [02:04] that it's a matter of one year or five [02:08] years in which AI will be much better [02:12] than most humans in most of the time in [02:16] most of the jobs. Okay. So let's drill [02:19] down into that for a little bit. Um, [02:23] in an economy when we talk about a 10% [02:27] unemployment rate, that is a [02:30] catastrophe, right? We normally want [02:33] lower than 4%. When it reaches 6%, we're [02:36] talking recession already. 10% is [02:38] really, really bad. Now I if AI in [02:45] numerous tasks whether it's programming [02:48] accounting medicine actuary meaning what [02:52] I would call um highlevel [02:56] thinking professions [02:59] um AI is a and you have a range of [03:01] people right you have the range of [03:02] people at the top who are the superstars [03:04] in their field they're not going to be [03:06] replaced so quickly by AI but then you [03:09] have like the lower level intake people, [03:12] right? And they're um they're dealing [03:15] with many of the patients, but let's say [03:17] in in in [03:19] medicine, right? Many times you'll go to [03:21] the doctor, the doctor will diagnose and [03:24] say, "Come back to me for with a [03:25] follow-up." And now you could just [03:27] imagine a reality where you type your [03:29] symptoms into AI and it will give you [03:32] some suggestions. You try this, you try [03:33] that. You don't go to a doctor. Now the [03:35] doctor has fewer appointments. Doctor [03:37] has fewer appointments. You need fewer [03:39] doctors. Get rid of 20% of doctors. [03:42] Okay, that's an economic catastrophe. Or [03:45] let's talk about programming. I have an [03:49] edtech startup. I built the whole thing [03:51] with clawed code. It's being piloted in [03:55] a number of schools. But the point is [03:56] that like whereas 10 years ago, if I [03:59] wanted to build proof of concept, I [04:01] needed to raise somewhere around [04:03] $50,000. [04:05] Now, it was my $200 Claude subscription [04:07] that did it for me and then I was able [04:11] to, you know, build proof of concept and [04:13] build the tool. So, we're talking about [04:15] law, accounting, medicine. [04:19] Where where do you see the future with [04:21] the economy, AI, and all these [04:23] professions? [04:26] AI, economy, and defense view as this [04:31] triangle as almost the same thing. [04:35] Because all the cards are going to be [04:37] reshuffled amongst the nations of the [04:40] world. The countries who are AI first, [04:42] they are the leaders in AI. They will [04:45] have lots of revenue because they have [04:47] AI and AI based products that they that [04:51] they sell to other countries and bring [04:53] revenue. These countries will be very [04:55] prosperous [snorts] and they will be [04:58] able to maintain the social capabilities [05:03] even if the unemployment goes above what [05:06] it is right now. And these countries [05:08] will have money for defense. You know in [05:11] Israel we know that it costs a lot to [05:13] pay for all the weapons and almost the [05:16] entire defense itself will be based on [05:19] AI. I don't view a future in which we [05:22] have uh fighter jet drivers. Yeah. Yeah. [05:26] Pilots. Why do you need that? Why do you [05:29] need that slow thinking, slow reacting [05:34] um life precious human in that airplane? [05:38] Same in the tank, same in almost [05:39] everything. You will not have that. And [05:42] you will have more advanced countries [05:44] that their entire military is based on [05:47] autonomous robots which cost a lot. And [05:50] you will have inferior countries that [05:52] still use homo sapiens to go to war and [05:54] die. to to remind you when the Germans [05:58] invaded Poland the at the beginning of [06:01] the Second World War on the first day of [06:04] the Second World War they invaded with [06:06] their mechanized tanks and they was [06:10] surprised to confront horses. [06:14] These will be the fights of the [06:15] countries which are advanced with AI and [06:18] they have the money to pay for that and [06:20] the countries will be based on human [06:23] infantries which will be way behind. [06:27] >> Every day we're confronted with lies, [06:29] misinformation, and distorted narratives [06:31] about Israel. And here's the problem. [06:34] Even when we know something isn't true, [06:36] we don't always have the facts at our [06:38] fingertips to respond. If this sounds [06:40] like you, then I highly recommend a book [06:43] we just launched called the Pro-Israel [06:45] Handbook. This book gives you the [06:47] history, the facts, and the arguments [06:49] you need to confidentally stand up for [06:51] Israel and challenge the most common [06:54] false narratives being spread about the [06:55] Jewish state. Don't just support Israel, [06:58] know how to defend it. Get 15% off your [07:01] copy of the Pro Israel Handbook today by [07:03] clicking the link below and using the [07:06] code handbook 15. Now, back to the [07:08] video. Okay. So, now let's we're in [07:12] Israel. [07:14] What do you see? Where do you predict [07:17] Jewish AI is going to go? Is there a [07:19] need for a specifically [07:21] Jewish AI? Um are we talking about [07:24] something that's native rap? Um what do [07:28] you in terms of scholarship, Torah, you [07:31] know, biblical analysis? Where do you [07:34] see that going? Even if there were a [07:37] need for our own Israeli Jewish LLM, [07:42] economically it's irrelevant. [07:44] >> Can you explain that? [07:46] >> In order to build a state-of-the-art [07:48] LLM, to quote Larry Ellison, you need to [07:51] be able to raise a hundred billion [07:54] dollar just to get a seat around the [07:57] table. That's the cost of compute and [08:00] data acquisition and talent that you [08:02] need to be able to build an LLM on a par [08:05] with top ones. So the only players [08:08] around this table are America, Open AI, [08:12] entropic, Google, XAI [08:15] and China with their st state supported [08:20] apps. If you look at what happened to [08:22] the others who are trying to build [08:23] frontier AI, AI21 from Israel, [08:28] unfortunately it failed. Mr. from [08:31] France, it is about to fail. And [08:34] actually I I I predict that they will [08:37] soon stop trying to develop their own [08:39] French models and just use open- source [08:42] Chinese models. Canadian coher the same. [08:45] They will go the same way. So it doesn't [08:48] make any sense for us to develop a [08:50] model. One may argue that well maybe you [08:53] don't need to develop a big frontier AI, [08:57] maybe a smaller focused AI, but it's not [08:59] how that works. Usually the frontier big [09:03] models that are generic for all tasks, [09:06] they're also much better for anything [09:08] specific that you asked. A generic chat [09:11] GPT that all of us use on our phone is [09:15] better for medical diagnosis than AI [09:19] models developed specifically for [09:21] medical diagnosis. Let me give a quick [09:23] anecdote. [09:23] >> Sure. A friend of mine is a [09:26] pediatrician, one of the great [09:28] pediatricians and he said and in Israel [09:30] because of the regulation on his HMO [09:33] Katim [09:36] system, he has access only to specific [09:39] medical AI called open evidence the [09:42] prime company. So he said a few weeks [09:45] ago a patient came with a very complex [09:47] case that he didn't have a good good [09:50] diagnosis that that um uh fit all the [09:54] facts that he had. So he asked open [09:56] evidence and [snorts] he didn't get a [09:59] good answer for that. So he wrote a [10:01] diagnosis sent the patient to some test [10:04] and after the patient left because he [10:06] was embarrassed to open his own private [10:07] phone. After the patient [laughter] left [10:09] he just opened his private phone just to [10:11] take a comment. He opened chat GPT the [10:14] same that you and I use and entered this [10:17] case on the Chad GPT. He says I got [10:20] immediately the diagnosis that I wanted [10:23] that made sense. I didn't think about [10:24] it. Open evidence didn't think about it [10:27] and he called [snorts] the patient and [10:28] said you know what I added another test [10:30] for you and that test was positive [10:32] showing that this was a diagnosis. Wow. [10:35] >> Because the system cares about patient [10:37] safety and the security of data and all [10:40] the good reasons when you and I go to a [10:43] doctor in Israel at least, they don't [10:46] have access to the top AI diagnostics [10:50] that you and I and the doctor on his [10:52] personal phone have access to. And [10:55] history shows us that the higher quality [10:58] always wins. The moment autonomous [11:01] driving is better than humans, the [11:03] regulation will solve itself. [11:05] >> The moment AI will become much better [11:07] than doctors, and we're about to get [11:09] there, the regulation will solve itself [11:11] because we, the consumers, will trust [11:14] our AI more than our physician. [11:17] >> Okay. Uh, I'd like to shift gears a [11:20] little bit. You are a [11:23] very vocal advocate for libertarianism [11:27] and I share a lot of sympathy with that. [11:29] having living in Israel for 13 years, [11:31] the uh incredible amount of regulation [11:36] and bureaucracy and feeling like the [11:38] banks work for the tax authority and the [11:41] accountants work for the tax authority. [11:43] Um a and you know the endless number of [11:46] papers that I need to fill out and just [11:48] get having something shipped here. I I [11:50] get it. It's compared to the US, there's [11:53] just so many additional layers and [11:56] regulations. [11:58] But on the other hand, [12:01] when I think about October 7th and the [12:05] fact that there was this national [12:09] feeling, this attachment that people had [12:12] to their nation, that they were all just [12:14] going to drive down to the Gaza envelope [12:17] and protect other Jews. That is not the [12:21] libertarian model. It wasn't people [12:24] living as they wanted in a lazy fair [12:26] way. this country [12:29] um has inculcated that kind of national [12:32] attachment amongst all its citizens and [12:36] you're here at the National Conservatism [12:38] Conference. So I I'm wondering how you [12:41] think about that relationship between [12:43] libertarianism and I have again more [12:45] sympathy for the economic libertarianism [12:49] um but also the fact that we are we are [12:53] born into families. We are part of [12:55] families. We are born into nations. is [12:56] we are part of nations. We are born into [12:58] a religion. We are part of a religion. [13:00] We are born into attachments and [13:02] obligations. And I I'd love for to hear [13:05] how you think that we should balance [13:06] that. [13:07] >> I totally don't accept that definition [13:09] of libertarianism. That is not the [13:11] definition of libertarianism. That [13:13] almost any libertarian I know and I know [13:15] radical libertarians like our greatest [13:18] leader right now, Kavir Mle, he's a [13:20] great nationalist. He wants to make [13:22] Argentina great again. every week he [13:24] starts his cabinet meeting with with the [13:28] Torah with paras shĂ ua [13:30] >> that's amazing [13:31] >> to him and that's not a contradictory [13:33] that's exactly part of the libertarian [13:36] mindset that we were not like some uh [13:40] woke progressive oh it doesn't matter [13:42] everything is no we're all all [13:45] individuals with beliefs with values I [13:48] am Jewish and proud of that I'm Israeli [13:50] and proud of that and even [13:53] More radical libertarians would say that [13:56] the minimum that the state must give you [13:59] are the following four things. The most [14:02] radical inter interpretation. The state [14:05] must be able to defend against foreign [14:09] attacks. [14:10] >> Mhm. [14:10] >> The state must be able to defend you [14:12] against local attacks. Police, by the [14:14] way, on October 7, we failed in that, [14:17] right? [14:17] >> We can be a socialist bolevik economy. [14:21] Um, I will try to be polite and not tell [14:24] our loudly what I think about the uh [14:29] these evil socialist that we have here. [14:32] And on October 7, we failed on the [14:35] things that the most radical libertarian [14:37] will tell you these are the goals of the [14:39] state. Where was the military on October [14:41] 7? Complete failure. [14:43] >> 12 at the noon. People were massacred in [14:45] their home. We have the highest budget [14:48] for the military per capita in OECD. [14:50] Where did that money go? What did it do [14:52] to the pensions of the officers? For 6 [14:55] hours, they deserted and let people die [14:58] in their homes. So [snorts] don't talk [15:00] to me about our nationality and [15:02] solidarity. We pay tax money for that [15:05] role to happen. It didn't happen. Now [15:07] local. The second thing that any radical [15:10] libertarian will tell you that the state [15:12] needs to defend you locally. If I come [15:14] with you with a club and want to hit you [15:16] on the street, that is the role of the [15:18] state to defend me and not individuals [15:21] and just coming to your help. See what's [15:23] happening here with the with the illegal [15:25] weapons in many Arab cities. In the [15:28] south, it has turned into a wild west, [15:30] wild south, [15:31] >> right? [15:32] >> Where is it? Are we doing that? No, [15:34] we're not doing that. And the money is [15:36] going to all the other felting, the two [15:39] things, two aspects of the state. [15:42] dessert and I here I'll quote Milton [15:44] Freriedman. [15:45] >> Can I fly my an airplane 10,000 ft about [15:50] your private property? [15:52] >> The answer is yes. That's a commercial [15:54] plane. Can I fly a plane 100 ft about [15:58] your private property? I guess not. Who [16:00] is going to say where is the threshold? [16:03] You need a legislative body, a [16:05] parliament to legislate the minimum [16:08] things that are needed. We do need that. [16:11] It's not a matter of you or my opinion [16:12] where I can fly the plane. And the [16:14] fourth, you need the justice system to [16:17] rule only based on the laws dictated by [16:21] the legislative system. These are the [16:23] four things that any state must do. Even [16:25] the most radical interpretation. Now [16:27] look at Israel. We failed on the first. [16:30] We failed on the second. We're failing [16:32] on the third. You know, I speak even to [16:34] the good members of parliament. They [16:36] tell me, "Oh, why should I bother [16:38] legislating? the Supreme Court will [16:40] strike it down anyway and the force the [16:43] Supreme Court it is just oh you the [16:46] legislative body are too stupid I will [16:48] decide for you what's right and the rest [16:50] of the government look at the our [16:52] education [16:53] >> is like it's it's a miracle I don't have [16:56] any word for that we are the startup [16:58] nation we have one of the worst [17:00] education systems uh in the left by I [17:02] encourage all the countries that admire [17:04] us a startup nation you must send [17:06] delegations to meet with our educ [17:08] education ministry to learn what not to [17:11] do. [laughter] [17:12] I know I had a I had a meeting with [17:14] senior people in the ministry of [17:15] education uh what reforms they can do. I [17:19] said the ministry of education Israel is [17:21] like a patient with gangarine entire leg [17:26] is already dark and lost all tissue. You [17:29] can only shut it down. Shut down the [17:32] minister of education as mil did. Now [17:35] even as a libertarian says shut down, [17:38] fire everyone and don't cut the budget [17:42] because education important. How do you [17:45] do that? The voucher system. Do you know [17:49] that the the amount of budget per pupil [17:53] in our education system? If I abolish [17:56] all of it and just give it to you as a [17:58] parent, [17:59] >> you will have almost the same amount of [18:01] money as the tuition that you pay to the [18:03] top private schools in Israel. [18:06] >> Wow. [18:07] >> So where is the money going [18:10] to all those stupid people in the [18:12] Ministry of Education to tell us what to [18:15] do? And again, I'm a libertarian and and [18:17] by the way, I am a semi-religious kind [18:20] of libertarian. [18:21] So if I decide that I would like more [18:26] Torah for my kid at his elementary [18:29] school, am I right? Of course I'm right. [18:32] If you decide that there is too much [18:34] Torah at the school for your kid and you [18:36] want a more secular school, are you [18:39] right? Of course you're right. The [18:41] libertarian mindset comes from a [18:44] humility. [18:45] Who am I to tell you what to do when I [18:48] don't agree even with with what I agreed [18:51] with with myself 5 years ago? Am I going [18:54] to force it on you? Of course not. It's [18:57] incredibly stupid. So let the private [18:59] market decide and you take the voucher [19:01] and do it to and of course if for [19:03] education we can do that. By the way, in [19:05] Israel we did that for the health care [19:07] system, the HMOs, they're the voucher [19:10] system, [19:10] >> right? Why do we need a ministry of [19:12] education, Ministry of Agriculture? [19:14] Abolish it. Do you know why Israel is [19:16] successful tech? [19:18] >> There's no ministry of tech. [19:20] >> Exactly. Form a ministry of tech and it [19:23] will be as lousy and lazy and [19:27] incompetent [19:28] as our agriculture. [19:31] Right? Just a small anecdote on that. Uh [19:34] I live in Afrat and the schools in [19:37] Gusetion where I live they're all the [19:40] elementary schools are uh grade 1 [19:43] through eight and the high schools are 9 [19:46] through 12. But madak the ministry of [19:49] education has this idea that no we have [19:53] to have schools that are 66 grades 1 [19:56] through six and 7 through 12. And now [19:59] they're even though the schools have won [20:02] prizes both at the elementary school [20:04] level and at the high school level for [20:06] being incredibly successful, the [20:08] Ministry of Education is trying to [20:11] figure out ways to get the various [20:13] schools to either reduce the number of [20:16] grades, the elementary schools to reduce [20:17] the number of grades to go just 1 [20:18] through six and the high schools to [20:21] expand to 7 through 12. And I I I I've [20:23] been fighting it as much as I can and [20:25] it's [20:25] >> that's crazy. [20:26] >> It's crazy. Now to be fair, there are [20:28] some good people in Ministry of [20:29] Education, but just 99% [20:32] bring a bad reputation for all the [20:34] remaining ones. [20:36] >> Let me ask you a different question [20:38] related to this. We're the Jewish state. [20:40] That's how we define ourselves. Let's [20:42] say there was someone who said, "I don't [20:44] want my my child to learn any in school, [20:48] any Tanakh in school." [20:50] >> Okay. [20:50] >> Absolutely. It's his right. And you know [20:53] why? Because I care about the Torah. [20:56] That's why I say it is right. [20:58] >> And what if And what if someone said I [20:59] don't want my son to learn any math. [21:02] >> It is still his right. But here there's [21:05] an asterk to that. [21:06] >> Okay. [21:06] >> So yeah, we're taking me to the to the [21:08] gray area which I love that. First of [21:10] all for the do you know that many of my [21:13] friends are religious ultraorththodoxis [21:17] and I have immense respect for that. [21:21] It is much easier [21:23] in some aspects to be a Jew outside [21:26] Israel. [21:28] >> Everything that you decide to do, [21:31] whether to go to shul and Shabbat or [21:34] anything, it because you actively [21:36] decided to do that, right? [21:38] >> It is precious for you. You fight for [21:41] that. Your ancestors [21:43] paid with their lives for that and it's [21:46] precious to your heart. In Israel, they [21:49] shove it down your throat sometimes to [21:52] the extent that even a very respectful [21:55] person like me that religion is a big [21:57] part of my life. I say, "Come on, let me [22:00] decide what I want." And you see the [22:05] worst representatives [22:07] of the amazing ultraorththodox [22:09] population that we have, the worst [22:11] representatives of them are their [22:13] members of the Knesset. [22:15] [laughter] that the only thing they they [22:17] come in, you know, I I was I was meeting [22:20] with the head of one of the the most [22:23] prestigious yeshivas in in in Jerusalem, [22:25] ultra orthodox, those that don't go to [22:27] the military, but they're very and I had [22:30] the the privilege of sitting with him [22:31] oneonone [22:33] and I asked him what percentage of your [22:37] budget comes from the government and he [22:40] said 8%. said 8 or 98. He said, "No, no, [22:45] only eight. All the all the other is [22:46] private donations." So, so if I were in [22:49] your shoes, I would say, you know what, [22:52] take your 8% [22:54] >> and leave me alone because the [22:56] perception of the rest of the population [22:58] is that they are living off our money [23:02] and their representative in the Knesset. [23:05] The only time you hear goldenov is say [23:07] money, money, more money, more money, [23:08] more money for me. That's the only thing [23:10] you hear about them. And they're doing [23:12] terrible service for these amazing uh [23:16] people and what they do. And I'm [23:18] absolutely confident if you switch our [23:21] entire Bolevik socialist society to a [23:25] cavier MLE style even more aggressive [23:28] radical libertarianism. [23:31] It will only do well for Torah. You know [23:33] why? Because people like me who do not [23:36] donate today personally almost zero to [23:38] these causes because the government [23:42] with under violence tax taxation [23:45] extortting me so much money said well [23:49] they've taken the money and go to all [23:50] the stupid things if I have more money [23:52] in my pocket I will spend the things [23:54] that I care about and I don't care about [23:56] some woke progressive cultural movie [23:59] against Israel that my money goes to. I [24:02] will spend it for Torah. Look what's [24:04] happening in the in in Brooklyn in New [24:07] York. Ola [24:09] is prospering there without asking for [24:12] any favors from the government. So I am [24:16] sure if here we reduce the pressure on [24:19] people. Somebody in the in Tel Aviv they [24:22] want to send their child to an extreme [24:25] radical secular school. It is his right. [24:29] But he will soon figure out that there [24:31] are not many people, not many Jews who [24:34] live here and put up with all the [24:38] terrible and difficult things of living [24:40] here while saying, you know what, I [24:41] don't want anything from Judaism. Yeah, [24:43] there will be one private school. [24:46] Everything will private, right? Right. [24:47] >> Two private schools and that's it. [24:50] Because most people I talk to, secular [24:52] people from the tech, they want [24:55] religious content. They want the [24:58] knowhow. They are frustrated that their [25:01] child learns at school what happened in [25:04] the French Revolution and then you ask [25:06] them what was on the Temple Mount. They [25:09] don't know how to answer that. That is [25:11] not Jewish or not Jewish. That is being [25:14] ignorant. Ignorant of your past and it [25:16] bothers them. [25:17] >> Okay. Well, that's a very hopeful place [25:21] to end. Uh thank you very very much for [25:23] coming on the Israel 365 News podcast. [25:27] Dr. Ellie Devid, thank you. [25:28] >> Thank you. My pleasure.
