Transcript [00:00] It's a political problem, it's not a [00:01] religious problem. [00:02] >> Uh 90% of Islam is political Islam. [00:05] About 10% of it is spiritual. So, [00:08] political Islam is a fundamental feature [00:11] of Islam. There is no Islamism or Islam, [00:14] there's just Islam. 2006, a few years [00:17] after 9/11, Judge Richard Posner wrote a [00:21] book. The book was called Not a Suicide [00:24] Pact: The Constitution in a Time of [00:27] National Emergency. And in that book, he [00:30] argued the following. He argued that [00:33] our commitment to civil liberties, civil [00:35] rights and liberties for citizens, has [00:38] to be balanced [00:39] against the concerns for national [00:41] security. Now, that sounds dangerous to [00:43] people. Oh, you know, oh, we're going to [00:45] start limiting people's rights for [00:47] national security. [00:48] But, what he was really arguing is that [00:51] based on this concept that the [00:52] Constitution is not a suicide pact, [00:55] which is an old line that goes back over [00:58] 100 years, [01:00] that [01:01] the Constitution and our commitment to [01:03] rights and freedoms does not force the [01:06] nation [01:07] to to just sit back and be attacked and [01:12] endure threats to its very identity and [01:14] existence. [01:16] Okay? And that And that brings to mind [01:19] the whole issue that we we've talked [01:21] about in a lot of videos, which is the [01:23] issue of the West's difficulty in [01:25] dealing with the agenda [01:27] of Sharia supremacist Muslims who want [01:31] to bring Sharia law. So, they use the [01:34] rights and freedoms in the West in order [01:36] to advance their own agenda. And I was [01:38] thinking about this [01:40] while I was watching a clip. I was [01:43] watching an event that took place in [01:45] England [01:46] uh last year. [01:49] And on stage in this clip I'm going to [01:50] show you Gad Saad, the great uh [01:53] professor and public intellectual and [01:55] author from from Canada, [01:57] um very outspoken about Islam, and Batya [02:00] Ungar-Sargon, who I have great respect [02:02] for. I know Batya, she's a wonderful [02:03] person. [02:05] But, in the exchange that Batya has with [02:07] one of the people in the crowd, [02:10] the two of the people in the crowd, [02:11] actually, [02:12] I think in in in what she says, we have [02:15] there encapsulated [02:17] the very conundrum, the very problem [02:19] that Posner was talking about. And it's [02:21] really the problem that the West needs [02:23] to face up to in order to deal with the [02:26] whole encroachment and and takeover of [02:29] Western countries by Muslims, by Sharia [02:33] supremacists. [02:34] Uh it uh and and I want to play that [02:36] clip for you. I have a I have some [02:40] I have some thoughts about it that I'm [02:41] going to share. Before we get on with [02:43] this, please make sure to check out [02:46] Israel 365 News YouTube channel. That's [02:50] the other channel where I post content. [02:52] Uh I'm the executive director of Israel [02:54] 365 Action and and Israel 365 News. We [02:58] post very important videos that deal [03:00] with the political situation and deal [03:02] with a lot of issues that are happening [03:04] uh around the world right now. Also very [03:05] important interviews. We uploaded a [03:07] fantastic interview that I did with Nick [03:09] Freitas last week. It's a must-watch. [03:13] And uh there was also an interview that [03:14] I did a few weeks ago with Dr. Mordechai [03:16] Kedar, which you go check out, and many [03:18] other very informative [03:20] uh [03:21] videos on that channel. So, if you're [03:22] not subscribed to Israel 365 News, [03:25] please go do that, and then you'll [03:26] really get um more of my content, you'll [03:28] get a fuller picture of everything that [03:30] that I'm talking about. [03:32] >> [snorts] [03:32] >> All right, let's get to this video. You [03:34] said it was disgusting to question [03:36] whether or not [03:38] a given faith was compatible with the [03:40] Western values or British culture. And [03:43] you said there's quite a different [03:44] context in America to what it is here [03:47] regarding the the grooming gangs. I [03:49] don't know if you know, and I'd be [03:51] interested to hear your response to this [03:53] if it changes your mind. Um in the UK, [03:56] Pakistani men are overrepresented by a [03:58] share of four in child sex crimes. And [04:01] when the children who've been abused by [04:03] these gangs come forward and speak about [04:05] it, they say they've been branded with [04:06] the M for Muhammad on themselves. [04:08] They've been subjected to forced Quran [04:10] readings. And the families of the [04:11] rapists have justified the abuse of the [04:13] girls because they have said they dress [04:16] immodestly by Muslim standards. And when [04:18] they ask the police officers, the [04:19] council workers, the politicians why [04:21] they didn't speak up for this, in all of [04:22] the reports, they say for political [04:24] correctness, for community cohesion, [04:26] because they didn't want to upset the [04:27] Muslim community. Now, [04:30] as well as the security of Jews, which [04:31] you mentioned, according to the Henry [04:33] Jackson Society last year, only a [04:35] quarter of British Muslims think October [04:37] the 7th happened. [04:39] Like three quarters of them think Hamas [04:40] did nothing wrong, and that's mainly [04:42] concentrated among university-educated, [04:44] British-born Muslims 18 to 30. So, I [04:47] think we have a very different problem [04:49] in the UK than we do in the US. So, you [04:52] do you still think it's not possible to [04:54] say Islam is not compatible with [04:56] Britain? [04:57] Um [04:59] Okay. [05:02] Okay. [05:06] I just I want to take I want to take [05:09] questions in groups of three [05:11] and to give them a chance to think about [05:13] this. No, no, I want to I want to answer [05:15] that. [05:15] >> you want Do you want to answer that [05:16] right away? Okay, fine. All right, all [05:17] right. All right. Go, go. [05:19] Like, I'm sorry, those are your [05:20] citizens. Citizenship [05:23] is the only human right that every [05:26] person has a right to. When you have [05:29] citizens of your country, I'm not [05:31] arguing that you don't have a cultural [05:33] problem here in a certain subset of the [05:36] citizenry of your country. But, a [05:39] country is made up of the people who [05:41] live there, who have that legal right. [05:45] You need to work a lot harder on [05:47] changing hearts and minds, because you [05:49] cannot simply say that a certain citizen [05:52] of your country is not compatible. And [05:55] by the way, we have statistics like that [05:57] in America. There are certain [05:59] subpopulations who have much more [06:01] overrepresented in child sex crimes. [06:04] It would never occur to me to suggest [06:06] that they are less citizens. Like, [06:09] citizenship is a sacred thing. What are [06:12] you suggesting that they be [06:14] denaturalized? Like [06:17] That is insane. [06:20] That is utter You do not have a [06:22] democracy if you think you can [06:25] denaturalize people based on their [06:27] ideas. I'm a scientist, so I think very [06:30] analytically. Okay? [06:32] So, [06:33] take for example Sharia law, [06:36] right? [06:37] In Sharia law, it says that [06:40] a crime will be punished differently as [06:44] a function of the identity of the [06:47] perpetrator and the victim. So, if a [06:50] Jewish man were to kill a Muslim man, it [06:53] wouldn't be the same penalty as if it [06:55] were reversed. I can give you all of the [06:58] sources that support that Sharia ruling. [07:00] Gad, I have some bad news for you about [07:02] the Talmud. [07:03] >> [laughter] [07:04] >> Sorry. [07:09] But, the [07:10] I'll I'll I'll I'll ignore that for a [07:12] second. Uh so, that said, [07:15] you take a fundamental principle from [07:18] uh Lady Justice being blind, where you [07:21] don't do that in American jurisprudence, [07:24] those two realities are antithetical to [07:27] each other. I'm not aware of too many [07:28] Talmudic Talmudic extremists who are [07:31] trying to infuse Well, exactly. It's a [07:32] political problem, it's not a religious [07:34] problem. [07:35] >> Uh 90% of Islam is political Islam. [07:38] About 10% of it is spiritual. So, [07:41] political Islam is a fundamental feature [07:44] of Islam. There is no Islamism or Islam, [07:47] there's just Islam. Erdogan, the Turkish [07:50] president, has said so. 75,000 other [07:54] Islamic clerics have said exactly the [07:55] same thing. So, in we don't have many [07:58] people who are trying to infuse Talmudic [08:00] principles within American [08:02] jurisprudence. [08:04] We are seeing in the West an incursion [08:07] in of Sharia principles that is [08:10] incompatible. So, I don't think Muslims [08:13] are incompatible with the West, because [08:15] I may have a lot more in common with a [08:17] Muslim secularist than I might have with [08:20] an Orthodox Jew. So, to say Muslims are [08:23] not allowed in the West, I would [08:25] completely disagree with. But, are there [08:27] tenets of Islam, to your point, that are [08:30] perfectly [08:32] incompatible with the West? Nothing [08:35] could be clearer. A three-day-old pigeon [08:37] understands that. [08:39] >> [laughter] [08:42] >> Okay. [08:43] Um [08:45] We'll go here and then there at the end. [08:47] Go ahead. [08:48] Yeah. [08:50] We're in England, and I'm not an [08:52] Englishman. I'm here as a guest in this [08:55] country. And as a part of a guest [08:58] community in this country, we have to [09:00] behave ourselves. If I had guests in my [09:02] house, I'd expect them to behave [09:04] themselves. If they didn't, and they [09:06] started doing all sorts of awful things [09:08] to my sister, for example, they'd be [09:10] kicked out of the house. [09:13] We need to understand that citizenship [09:15] is not actually that important. What's [09:17] more important than citizenship is that [09:20] is is inheritance. And the English have [09:22] inherited this land. This is their land. [09:24] We're here not as a right, we're here at [09:26] their at their preference. [09:28] And it And if a community doesn't [09:30] understand that, they've got no right to [09:32] be here at all. [09:37] I think that's one of the saddest things [09:40] I've ever heard, and I'm going to be [09:41] haunted by the spectacle of you standing [09:44] there and saying that. If someone in my [09:46] country said that, I would ask myself [09:48] what I'm doing wrong. I mean, the idea [09:50] that a citizen would call themselves a [09:53] guest based on their religion is [09:55] horrific to me. The whole point of my [09:57] country is that that is completely [09:59] anathema. If somebody made a Jew feel [10:02] that way in my country, I would I don't [10:04] even know what I would do to them. [10:05] That's I will be haunted by that for for [10:08] a long time. [10:09] That second questioner was an Orthodox [10:12] Jew, a British Orthodox Jew, who was [10:15] saying, "Look, we're guests in in [10:16] England. [10:17] And what's more important than [10:19] citizenship is inheritance, and that [10:21] England belongs to British people." Very [10:23] interesting way he formulated it, but [10:25] you see that Batya found this so [10:26] offensive. [10:28] And she talks about the fact that these [10:29] Sharia supremacist Muslims, no matter [10:31] how much we're upset by the crimes they [10:33] commit, are citizens and they have the [10:35] rights [10:37] of citizenship. [10:38] And what Gad Saad was trying to say [10:40] politely was, "Well, [10:42] not exactly, cuz when you're talking [10:44] about a political system, [10:47] uh that [10:48] that's a different story here." Now, let [10:50] me first deal with that whole Talmudic [10:51] exchange they had there. When Gad Saad [10:54] mentioned that uh as an example of [10:56] Sharia law, that Sharia law treats [10:59] uh people differently uh in terms of [11:01] crimes committed based on who the [11:02] perpetrator and who the victim was, if [11:04] that's if it's a Muslim perpetrator on a [11:06] non-Muslim victim versus the reverse, [11:08] then the laws are different. And Batya [11:09] said, "Well, I've got bad news for you [11:10] from the Talmud." What she was talking [11:12] about is that in Talmudic law, remember [11:14] the Talmud was [11:16] uh uh [11:17] compiled over the course of a few [11:18] centuries, but it was it was a done deal [11:21] about 1,500 years ago or so. [11:25] And in the Talmud, yes, there are laws [11:27] there that it says that according to [11:29] Jewish law, you get there are situations [11:31] where the law for Jews and the law for [11:32] non-Jews is different in a Jewish [11:34] society in, [11:35] you know, again, a very, very long time [11:37] ago. [11:38] Uh the major difference there is that no [11:42] one is forced to live in a Jewish [11:44] society. [11:45] Okay? Meaning, I'm according to the [11:47] original Talmudic law. This is not the [11:48] case in Israel today. There's no [11:49] difference whatsoever if someone's a Jew [11:51] or not a Jew in terms of the application [11:53] of the law. [11:54] That's That's uh [11:55] it's an artifact really of history. It's [11:57] in the It's in the Talmudic law. It's [11:58] just simply not practiced at all today. [12:00] That that aspect of the law. But a key [12:03] distinction that God didn't make, he [12:04] doesn't he he was he he doesn't know the [12:07] Talmudic law. [12:08] A key distinction is that no one is [12:10] forced to live in the Jewish society. [12:13] So, anyone choosing to live in the in [12:15] again, in this idealized Jewish society [12:18] run by Talmudic law, which doesn't [12:20] exist, [12:21] uh no one is forced to join that. [12:24] Because the the Jewish nation-state is [12:26] only supposed to be in a very confined [12:29] area with borders that are laid out by [12:31] God in the Bible, a very small area. And [12:32] therefore, you choose to live under it. [12:35] No one's forced. That's a key [12:36] distinction. [12:38] Um [12:39] Anyway, Batya was raising that issue. [12:41] But the real issue in this exchange is [12:43] what Batya said about citizenship. And [12:45] here I think [12:47] that her being appalled misses the big [12:50] point. [12:52] And it really speaks to the confusion [12:55] and the problem facing the West. So, [12:57] let's get straight to that point. [13:00] Citizenship in a country like the UK [13:03] comes with rights. We're like right you [13:05] have the right of free speech, legal [13:06] protections, [13:08] uh participating in the political [13:09] process. [13:11] But those rights come from a system. [13:14] Okay? They're not abstract truths. They [13:17] come from a system. They're grounded in [13:19] the legal order of the state. [13:22] What that means is that [13:24] citizenship assumes a basic commitment [13:27] to that legal order. No That That [13:30] doesn't mean you agree with every law or [13:31] that you can't criticize it or that you [13:33] won't commit crimes. Of course, [13:35] you will, and that doesn't You don't [13:37] lose your citizenship. [13:39] But the line that I would draw, and I'll [13:42] the line that I think is legally valid [13:44] to draw, is the line between criticizing [13:47] the system [13:48] and advocating and seeking to replace it [13:51] entirely. [13:53] So, when someone says, [13:55] "I believe that Sharia law should [13:56] replace [13:58] the law of the United Kingdom [13:59] ultimately, and that's my goal." [14:02] But it's not just that I state that as a [14:03] belief, but my community and my [14:05] leadership, we're actively working [14:07] towards that goal to have Sharia law [14:09] replace British law. [14:11] That is no longer a religious belief. [14:13] That's no longer a personal belief. It [14:15] It is a political objective, and that's [14:17] what Gad Saad was talking about. It's a [14:19] statement about governance, about [14:22] legitimacy of governance, [14:24] about which system of law should rule [14:26] the land. [14:28] So, once you understand that, the [14:29] comparison then becomes obvious. If [14:32] someone said, [14:33] "I want to overthrow the current system [14:35] and replace it with the communist legal [14:37] order." [14:39] We wouldn't treat that as just another [14:41] opinion or say that it's a religious [14:42] belief. [14:44] Right? If you have a group of people who [14:45] are organizing to overthrow the US [14:47] government or whatever country you live [14:48] in and replace it with a different [14:51] type of governance system, that's not [14:53] that's not legitimate. [14:55] But you recognize that as a movement [14:56] that's against the system, that's [14:58] illegal. And people who who do that are [15:00] then deprived of their rights. They're [15:02] treated as criminals, as enemies. [15:05] Not because of who they are or what they [15:07] believe, but because of what they are [15:08] trying to do. What they're trying to do [15:11] is replace the existing legal system, [15:13] the existing governance with something [15:15] else. And the same standard has to apply [15:18] consistently, because this is not about [15:20] religion. [15:22] Again, it's about the desire to replace [15:25] a legal system the prevailing legal [15:27] system in the West with another one. And [15:29] that brings us back to citizenship. If [15:31] your rights come from a legal system, [15:33] what does it mean if you are actively [15:35] working to dismantle that system and [15:37] replace it? [15:39] At the very least, it puts you in direct [15:41] tension with the basis of the rights [15:43] that you are utilizing in order to do [15:46] this. [15:47] But there's [15:49] there's a very big difference between [15:50] trying to reform a system and replace a [15:52] system. Okay? So, if you want to If you [15:55] want to change the system because you [15:56] want to make reforms, [15:59] you say What you're basically saying is, [16:01] "I agree with the system, but I don't [16:02] like this or that law. It The system [16:04] needs improvement." [16:06] But if you're If you're actively saying [16:07] that you want to replace the system, as [16:09] Muslims do say, they say that every [16:11] system of law is illegitimate other than [16:14] Sharia. [16:15] They're saying that this system, the [16:17] system of rights and privileges of [16:19] citizenship and the legal system in the [16:22] West is illegitimate and needs to be [16:24] replaced. Those are not the same thing. [16:26] Reform and replacement are not the same [16:28] thing. [16:29] A free society depends on people wanting [16:32] to reform it. It is constantly evolving [16:34] and changing. [16:36] But it can't [16:38] But a free society can't allow [16:41] the freedom to engage in questioning and [16:44] reform and challenging the authority [16:47] to then spill over into allowing [16:50] replacement efforts, people who are [16:52] trying to replace the society. I hope [16:54] that made sense. [16:56] See, here's the inconsistency. [16:59] When [17:01] when people are overtly political [17:03] actors, they're communists, they're [17:05] fascists, and they are trying to [17:08] overthrow the government, they're trying [17:09] to replace the political system with [17:11] communism or fascism, [17:13] everyone recognizes that as a threat and [17:15] it's treated as insurrection or sedition [17:18] or treason. [17:19] But when the same claim is made, but [17:22] it's under the banner of a religion, [17:24] suddenly everyone's like, "No, no, no, [17:25] no, no. Oh, freedom of religion. It's it [17:28] you know, it's you know, Islam is a [17:29] religion. That's their faith." [17:32] But there shouldn't be any distinction, [17:33] because the issue has nothing to do with [17:36] in what way the person believes it. Do [17:38] they believe it as a religious system or [17:39] they believe it or is it theological or [17:41] is it just that they're a communist? [17:44] The issue is what they are trying to do. [17:46] What is the objective? If the objective [17:47] is to replace the governing legal order, [17:50] then by definition, [17:52] that is a challenge to the state. And if [17:54] the state refuses to recognize [17:58] that that is undermining its own It's It [18:01] If If If a state refuses to recognize [18:03] that, then it's undermining its own [18:04] foundation. So, the question isn't [18:06] whether people are free to believe what [18:08] they want. Of course, they are. [18:09] The question is whether advocating for [18:11] the replacement of an entire legal [18:13] system is treated [18:16] as participation in the system or is it [18:18] opposition to the system? [18:21] I hope this made sense. Let me say it [18:23] another way. [18:25] If you can't distinguish between [18:26] citizens who operate within the system [18:28] of a society [18:30] and citizens who are seeking to replace [18:33] the system of the society, [18:35] like that's not tolerance anymore. [18:39] You have to choose to defend yourself. [18:41] Okay? And this is This is the big [18:43] problem facing the West right now. [18:45] That oh, [18:47] everyone has rights and and you're [18:49] you're free to say and believe whatever [18:51] you want. [18:52] And Islam is a religion, so there's [18:54] religious freedom and you can't and you [18:56] can't impinge on people's religious [18:58] rights. [18:59] But if if the [19:01] But But But Islam's goal is a political [19:03] goal. [19:05] And at some point, the West is going to [19:06] have to say, "Even those Muslims in our [19:08] country [19:09] who are born and raised here." That's [19:12] what that first questioner was saying. [19:14] The We have UK-born Muslims who [19:18] who want to implement Sharia law in the [19:20] UK. [19:21] And if Batya is right, and you say, [19:23] "Well, they're citizens. These are full [19:24] citizens. They can you know, if if if [19:26] they democratically take over England [19:28] and turn it into a Sharia state, then [19:29] that's [19:31] you know, then they're free to do that." [19:33] But then you go to that question You go [19:35] to the second questioner, that Orthodox [19:37] Jew who's British, who's saying, [19:39] "Listen, I'm a guest in this country." [19:40] And what he's saying is that there's [19:41] such a thing as the British nation. [19:44] And they have certain characteristics, [19:46] and they are the true owners of this [19:48] land. The idea of a national identity [19:51] and national ownership and the right [19:54] the right to have a national character [19:56] that you preserve and that you protect [19:59] and that people who are coming in to [20:01] join your society are guests even if [20:04] they become citizens they're joining [20:05] your society and your norms. [20:08] And this is where the confusion of the [20:10] West and frankly Bacchus' confusion here [20:12] comes to the fore that this [20:14] unwillingness to stand up and say, "Wait [20:16] a second, we have an identity here and [20:18] we're not and we have to we have to say [20:21] no at some point and say we're not going [20:23] to allow [20:24] our identity, what it means to be [20:26] British, what it means to be American, [20:28] what it means to be French, we're not [20:29] going to stand up [20:31] and defend against [20:34] people [20:35] whether they're citizens or not who come [20:37] into our society and try to undo it and [20:40] remake it in the image of a completely [20:42] different legal order and a completely [20:44] different culture. [20:45] This is the look [20:47] this is the problem facing the West. [20:50] This is it encapsulated here. And [20:51] Bacchus is a good person. She you know [20:53] she holds all you know most of her [20:54] political views I very much agree with. [20:57] But you see here the confusion. [20:59] You see here the what Gad Saad often [21:02] calls suicidal empathy and this is [21:04] exactly what Posner was warning about. [21:06] Not a suicide pact. [21:09] You can't say that you would adhere to [21:10] all you know to the that everyone has [21:13] equal rights as citizens to the extent [21:16] that they use those rights [21:18] to try to undermine and destroy the very [21:22] system that grants those rights.
