Transcript [00:00] Iranian alliance meant to destroy [00:02] America. Now, this becomes very [00:04] pertinent to the propaganda we're seeing [00:05] from people like Tucker Carlson, Candace [00:07] Owens, and so on today. You see them [00:09] supporting the Iranian regime and [00:11] opposing the US-Israel alliance against [00:13] the Iranian regime, but this fits [00:15] perfectly into Dugin's broad strategy to [00:19] unite with the Islamic world, as he [00:20] calls it, and Iran in particular, to [00:22] destroy that western snake that's [00:24] crushing the land powers in the world [00:27] island, which he thinks are destined [00:28] because of their mass of land that he [00:30] has. They are destined to rule the [00:31] world. They just haven't been able to [00:33] figure out how to get there yet. [00:34] >> Okay. This is I've got so many different [00:36] angles I want to explore here. Welcome [00:38] back everyone to the Shoulder to [00:39] Shoulder podcast. Pastor Doug is on the [00:41] road this week, so he will not be with [00:44] us. I'm going to be flying solo. Well, I [00:46] do have a wonderful guest, but just make [00:48] sure that you are subscribed to the [00:50] channel. Make sure that you are [00:53] connected to us on Facebook with the the [00:55] Shoulder to Shoulder community, and make [00:57] sure that you check out Israel [00:58] 365news.com [01:00] for all your news and analysis from [01:02] Israel from a biblical perspective. Make [01:04] sure you check out my columns there. And [01:06] please go over to Patreon and subscribe. [01:09] Become a Patreon subscriber to this [01:11] podcast. You can help support us. We do [01:12] have some production costs, and it [01:14] really does help us continue to do what [01:15] we do. We're closing in on 5 years of [01:18] the Shoulder to Shoulder podcast, and [01:19] it's thanks to all of you that we've [01:21] been able to do this. So, go over to [01:22] Patreon, and for your gift, for your [01:25] support of $10 a month, you will gain [01:27] access to an archive of Bible studies [01:31] with myself and Pastor Doug, chapter by [01:33] chapter Bible study starting in Genesis [01:35] 1. Each Each lesson's about 15-20 [01:37] minutes long. We go through a chapter of [01:39] the Bible, share some insights of Pastor [01:41] and a Rabbi, kind of unique. And and [01:44] that's all that's all you know, for you, [01:46] for helping support us in the Shoulder [01:47] to Shoulder podcast. Well, I'm going to [01:50] I'm not going to waste any more time. I [01:51] want to get right into it. A very [01:52] important topic here. I've been meaning [01:53] to engage in this conversation. [01:56] Uh, James Lindsay has been on the [01:58] podcast before. He's no stranger to this [02:00] audience. He's really one of the great, [02:02] uh, [02:02] um, I would call him a field general in [02:05] the information warfare space that we [02:07] have. Now, that's the best way I could [02:08] describe it. He's someone who's really [02:09] been fighting the good fight in many [02:11] ways and has suffered for it. Uh, and, [02:14] uh, has become in in, you know, recent [02:16] months, uh, a dear friend. [02:18] And, uh, just welcome back to the [02:20] podcast, uh, James. Thanks for being [02:22] here. [02:22] >> Thank you, Rabbi. [02:24] This is [02:25] >> As I said to you, I I don't want to [02:26] waste any time with our our our viewers [02:28] and I want to get right into the topic. [02:30] I want to explain what we're talking [02:31] about here. [02:32] So, with all of the, uh, this might be a [02:34] little bit of a long tee-up just to [02:36] frame the conversation and then I'll [02:37] give it over to you. [02:39] But, what we've seen over this last, I [02:41] don't know, year and a half or so, it's [02:43] hard to say when exactly it began, [02:46] uh, with all of the rise of not only [02:49] hatred of Israel coming from what's [02:51] considered the conservative right or the [02:53] podcast universe, we're talking about [02:56] people like Tucker Carlson and Candace [02:57] Owens and some others and my on-again, [03:01] off-again associate Steve Bannon has [03:03] gotten involved in this as well. [03:05] You have it's but it's not only about [03:08] Israel. There seems to be this decidedly [03:10] down on America slant. Under the guise [03:13] of being patriots and being America [03:15] first and loving America, there's a lot [03:17] of this, [03:19] you know, it almost sounds like, you [03:20] know, what the left does with the 1619 [03:23] Project and criticizing the American [03:25] origins. There's a lot of demonizing of [03:27] America and some of this takes the guise [03:29] of rewriting the history of World War II [03:32] and Churchill being the bad guy and [03:33] Hitler being the good guy. [03:35] And [03:36] it's very difficult to make sense of all [03:38] of this. And [03:40] I know I don't know a lot about this [03:42] topic, but I know from from the little [03:44] drips and drabs that I've had there that [03:46] there is this this Russian guy named [03:50] Dugin, Alexander Dugin, who's this some [03:53] Russian political thinker who has had a [03:55] great influence. I know that Tucker [03:57] Carlson has a relationship with him and [03:59] traveled to Russia and met with him. And [04:01] that's a big piece of this whole world [04:03] is this is this glorification of [04:06] Vladimir Putin as part of the whole of [04:09] the whole ethos of this strange [04:12] movement. And I wanted to have you on [04:15] because I know that you've been digging [04:16] into this and you've been looking at it [04:17] and some of the tweets that I saw from [04:19] you over the last few months, [04:21] I you you [04:22] I I thought you were the right person to [04:24] talk to about this. So, I'm going to [04:26] just tee you up with that. It's not [04:27] really a question, but could you explain [04:29] to us what it is we're seeing here? And [04:31] I think this is the right time to talk [04:33] about it because I know Candace Owens is [04:34] currently in Russia. Apparently, she's [04:36] visiting Dugin [04:37] right now. [04:39] And I just want to help us understand [04:41] what we're seeing because there's been [04:42] so much again, so much talk about this [04:44] group, so much worry about the [04:45] anti-Semitism on the right and the [04:47] anti-Israel sentiment and and this woke [04:49] right different terms that are for it. [04:51] But you seem to be getting to the bottom [04:53] of what what it's all about. [04:55] >> Well, this is a big big topic. Just to [04:59] to throw this out there. And what [05:01] Alexander Dugin is in is not a small [05:03] part of the story, but he's not anything [05:05] like the whole story. So, I just kind of [05:07] want to start by saying that. And now [05:09] Alexander Dugin is this interesting [05:10] character because it's not at all clear [05:14] how seriously he's taken in Russia. And [05:16] I don't just mean by Russian citizens, I [05:18] also mean by Russian serious political [05:21] people such as Putin or even the the [05:24] Russian military leaders um who have [05:27] been for some decades now educated on on [05:29] some of Dugin's ideas. [05:31] It's not actually clear how seriously [05:33] he's taken, but the thing is is that he [05:35] is being taken seriously in this [05:37] particularly Russophilic [05:40] segment of this more radical right, [05:43] which also turns out to be anti-Israel, [05:45] turns out to be anti-US [05:48] in a very real way, anti-Trump, [05:51] um [05:52] and kind of anti-everything that seems [05:54] to be going right since Trump got [05:57] reelected. And so, Dugin's significant [06:00] to them, like you said, um [06:02] he's got some relationship with Tucker [06:03] Carlson. Tucker Carlson, when he went to [06:05] Russia a couple of years ago, rather [06:07] famously sat down and interviewed [06:09] Alexander Dugin, thus introducing him [06:12] uh on a very big scale to an American [06:14] audience. But, he's by no means the only [06:16] one who's done that. Um there's a [06:18] character that [06:20] goes by a pseudonym called Arron [06:22] McIntyre, who works at The Blaze, which [06:24] is a fairly substantial, you know, [06:27] right-wing conservative media outlet, [06:30] and he's interviewed or hosted, I should [06:32] say, Dugin twice. He interviewed him [06:34] once, and he hosted a [06:35] a discussion between Dugin and the [06:38] radical right neo-reactionary named Nick [06:41] Land, who has fairly crazy ideas. Um [06:44] you can go back to the archives and look [06:47] in early 2018, as far back as that, and [06:50] see Richard Spencer and Nick Fuentes [06:53] discussing Dugin and his ideas and the [06:56] relevance to the alt-right, um as early [06:59] as early 2018. And then, of course, when [07:02] Steve Bannon, uh as you mentioned, um [07:05] got kicked out of the White House by [07:07] President Trump in his first term, one [07:09] of the first meetings that Bannon had [07:11] was a a day-long meeting with Dugin in [07:13] Rome. And so, this guy is this character [07:16] that just kind of keeps popping in, [07:18] um [07:19] and his philosophy is relevant, maybe [07:21] not because of its relevance in Russia, [07:23] but maybe, but certainly because of his [07:26] relevance to this radical alt-right, [07:28] woke right, reactionary right, whatever [07:31] we're calling this thing. Um and his [07:33] philosophy is peculiar. This guy is a [07:35] weirdo. There's I mean, we have to [07:37] actually start with a [07:39] judgmental term like weirdo. Um [07:43] previously until recently I had only [07:45] read some of Dugin's essays. I had not [07:47] read his books. I've started to read his [07:49] books. I haven't finished either of his [07:50] two primary works, [07:52] which are called the fourth political [07:54] theory and the other one is called the [07:55] foundations of geopolitics. And that one [07:57] is the one that the Russian military [07:59] officers have been required to read for [08:02] some time now since the late 1990s. [08:05] Uh but I did read a couple of his [08:06] essays, a very short essay, two very [08:08] short essays that he wrote in the 1990s [08:11] as well. One of those is called [08:14] The Gnostic where he positions himself [08:17] as a purveyor of black magic. And he [08:19] says that magic is the only type of true [08:21] spirituality in the world. And you have [08:23] two choices, white or black. And that [08:25] black is the only way to truly make [08:27] history. And he calls this path the [08:29] Gnostic path. And he advocates for it [08:31] unabashedly. So this is why I call him a [08:33] weirdo. [08:34] Um [08:34] >> Hold on. Slow down. Slow down. Hold on. [08:36] Let me just make I want to make sure [08:37] that [laughter] [08:38] both me and my audience understand what [08:39] you just said here. [08:41] So you're saying this guy does not [08:43] profess to be [08:46] part of the Christian faith, even part [08:47] of the Russian Orthodox Christian faith? [08:50] I thought that he was part of the [08:51] traditional Russian church. And if [08:54] you're saying that he is, how does this [08:55] fit in? And if he isn't, back up and [08:58] tell me more about this black magic. [09:00] >> All right. Let's just go into the You [09:01] just You said the magic word there, pun [09:03] intended. You said the magic word [09:05] without realizing it. What you said the [09:07] traditional Orthodox Church. As it turns [09:10] out, as we've all learned dealing with [09:12] woke for the last decade, sometimes [09:15] words mean more than one thing. We're [09:17] all used to this idea now that, you [09:18] know, somehow [09:20] diversity and inclusion seem to have [09:23] meant something different than what they [09:24] seem to mean on their face, right? It [09:26] obviously seems to mean getting radicals [09:28] to take over an organization under a [09:31] guise of something that looks like civil [09:32] rights, but it does not mean actually [09:34] caring about diversity because nobody's [09:36] allowed to think differently, right? So, [09:38] we understand that words mean different [09:39] things. There is an occult school of [09:41] thought called traditionalism, usually [09:44] spelled with a capital T, that is rooted [09:46] on a guy named Rene Guenon, that [09:48] basically none of us have ever talked [09:50] about. I know very little about Guenon [09:52] himself, but I know that Dugin is a [09:55] capital T traditionalist, and he [09:57] references Guenon all the time. [09:59] Now, our mutual associate, Steve Bannon, [10:03] is also listed on the traditionalist [10:05] Wikipedia entry as a devotee of [10:07] traditionalism. Now, what traditionalism [10:10] is, [10:12] it's like it's like inverted New Age. [10:14] That I'm trying to think of a like [10:16] simple way to explain this philosophy. [10:18] It's like New Age turned inside out and [10:20] upside down. So, New Age kind of has [10:23] this idea that like all the religions [10:25] are touching on a truth, and we can kind [10:27] of get airy-fairy and float above them, [10:29] and oh, the Jews say this, and the [10:31] Muslims say that, and the Christians say [10:32] that, and the Buddhists have this, and, [10:35] you know, whatever, you know, om namah [10:37] shivaya or whatever. And we can just [10:39] kind of create this spiritual soup for a [10:42] higher order level of thinking, [10:44] um and touch on what's ultimately called [10:47] the perennial philosophy, that there's [10:49] one deeper truth, this deeper religion [10:51] that all the religions are just trying [10:54] to articulate. So, if we start looking [10:56] across kind of pan-religiously at all [10:58] the religions, rather than to believing [11:00] that any of them are uniquely true, we [11:02] believe that all of them are [11:03] approximations of the truth, and we rise [11:05] above the religions to get to that [11:08] perennial truth that's true for all [11:09] people in all times and all places. And [11:12] this is usually some kind of weird New [11:14] Age, you know, New Thought sort of [11:17] um I don't know, quasi-mystical, [11:19] spiritualist belief system, where [11:22] basically you get to do whatever you [11:23] want. [11:24] >> That's That's the New Age thing. [11:26] >> That's New Age. So, what would it look [11:28] like if we turn that inside out and [11:30] upside down? Rather than picking and [11:33] choosing from every philosophy, we bore [11:36] deeply into one. So, we pick something, [11:38] say the Russian Orthodox Church, or we [11:41] pick something, say Shia Islam, and we [11:44] dig down to the bottom. We dig deeper [11:46] and deeper and deeper until we see [11:48] through the particularism and realize [11:50] that the same perennial philosophy comes [11:52] out, not by expanding above our [11:54] religion, but by getting all the way [11:56] down to its truest essential core. [11:59] So, it's like the opposite direction to [12:01] get to the same place, which is that all [12:03] the faiths of the world are actually [12:04] true, [12:05] but they're they're they're they [12:07] manifest in different ways, and by [12:09] boring into one specific tradition and [12:11] being as maximally traditionalist in [12:13] that tradition as you can possibly be, [12:15] you unlock the secrets of the bigger, [12:18] broader, universal truth of the whole [12:20] world. So, when he's a traditionalist [12:23] Orthodox [12:25] uh Russian Orthodox guy, that's how this [12:27] is meant. He believes that Orthodoxy is [12:30] a vehicle to a deeper [12:33] transcendent truth that ex- that that [12:35] exceeds Christianity or any other belief [12:37] system. And he's he's openly said this, [12:40] that Shia Islam does the same thing. So, [12:42] this is your Islam that the Islamic [12:45] Republic of Iran uh pedals. [12:48] That it is also one of these old grand [12:51] traditions that if you dig all the way [12:52] to the bottom and you come out the [12:54] bottom side, you end up in the same [12:56] place as everybody else that digs to the [12:57] bottom of their true traditions. Now, [13:00] Protestant Christianity would not be one [13:02] of these things. This is considered to [13:04] be this kind of modern invention. You [13:06] would not be able to go traditionalist [13:08] into Protestant Christianity, but [13:10] Catholicism, Orthodoxy in Christianity, [13:13] probably Confucianism, and so on, but [13:16] certainly also Shia Islam. I don't know [13:17] what he thinks of Sunni Islam. Uh you [13:20] can dig down to the very bottom, and so [13:22] this belief system is actually this kind [13:24] of occultism that by focusing super [13:27] intensely on one tradition, you end up [13:30] transcending all tradition. [13:32] >> Okay, wait. Before you go on to the [13:33] black magic and how that fits in, [13:36] does he define what that kind of [13:39] universal core truth that you get to is? [13:42] Does he say what it what the content of [13:44] it is? [13:44] >> I haven't read any of his writings on [13:46] perennialism specifically. And that [13:48] would be a question about Guenon. Guenon [13:50] is on the horizon of things I haven't [13:52] got to read yet. Um so, I don't know. [13:56] But I would bet you that it looks almost [13:57] exactly the same as the new age thing is [13:59] that we are all one, that um certain [14:02] traditional practices create mystical [14:05] experiences that create union with God [14:07] that unveils to us that we actually are [14:09] God, and so on and so forth, like they [14:12] always do. This is how they all believe. [14:14] So, I I don't know what I bet that's [14:15] what it [14:16] >> So, there's no any new idea then. [14:18] >> Um well, certainly, yes. Uh [14:21] absolute purity of of a of a unique [14:23] tradition, which therefore must not be [14:26] contaminated by any outside idea [14:28] whatsoever. [14:31] >> Okay. So, where does the black magic fit [14:33] in? [14:34] >> That's a good question. I just know that [14:36] he wrote this essay calling himself a [14:37] Gnostic and saying he says that the [14:39] sentence that like starts the essay is [14:40] that there's only two paths to [14:41] spirituality in the world and the the [14:43] right hand [clears throat] path and the [14:44] left hand path, white magic and black [14:46] magic. And um then he argues for the [14:50] left hand path or black magic the whole [14:52] way. So, this is why I would suggest [14:54] that that sort of Gnostic Luciferian [14:57] concept is what he's going to bore into [14:59] and come out the bottom of his religion [15:02] uh or his tradition is and and find. [15:04] But, [15:05] I don't know. He just advocates for this [15:07] unabashedly in this kind of stand-alone [15:09] essay that he wrote in 1997 and [15:11] published in the National Bolshevik [15:13] magazine that was circulating in Russia [15:16] at the time. Um it's a very peculiar [15:19] piece. [15:20] Um [15:21] And like I said, this is what I I read [15:22] previously from him was the Gnostic in [15:24] this other essay which he calls fascism [15:26] borderless and red where he advocates [15:28] that Russians need to adopt a Russian [15:30] national socialism that has red [15:32] communist elements to it but that [15:35] transcends both fascism and communism [15:37] and the errors of race that the Nazis [15:40] put forth. But that's only about a [15:41] three-page essay and I thought, "Wow, [15:42] this guy is about as un-American [15:45] as one can possibly be." [15:48] >> Explain that. What do you mean? [15:50] >> Uh [15:50] this idea that it's it's fundamentally [15:53] the collective nature of mankind that [15:56] this this national uh socialist idea [16:00] that is is what is necessary in the [16:03] world that liberalism he says is a [16:05] failed experiment. Communism is a failed [16:07] experiment. Fascism is a failed [16:08] experiment. This is the essence of his [16:10] book The Fourth Political Theory. So, we [16:12] need a new theory and that theory will [16:14] be based off of fascism with communistic [16:16] elements in order to create a new model [16:20] that is designed explicitly to oppose [16:23] the model that the Western world has [16:25] used and in particular the United [16:26] States. So, it'll be collectivist at its [16:28] core. [16:29] Um it will be fascistic which means the [16:32] intentional sacrifice of the individual [16:35] for the state apparatus. That's the [16:37] idolatry of fascism is that the state uh [16:40] subsumes all individual personalities [16:42] and so you are bound by duty and honor [16:44] to devote your entire being to the [16:47] well-being of the community, the folk, [16:49] or the state. Uh but it's not going to [16:51] have these same characteristics like I [16:53] said of Nazism or communism. But it [16:55] must, he says, be red and it must be [16:57] borderless. It must not worry about [16:58] national borders while it still retains [17:01] that ethnic national character. Um which [17:03] is kind of this paradox. Like I said, [17:05] it's a three-page essay so I wish I [17:07] could explain it better but he doesn't [17:09] give you a lot to go on. It's one of [17:10] these He's one of these writers that in [17:13] his essays is very etheric, very like he [17:16] doesn't finish ideas. and it's hard to [17:19] follow. His books, however, seem to be [17:21] the other way around. He seems to be [17:22] very, very clear um [17:24] in these books, uh in particular the [17:26] Foundations of Geopolitics, which I [17:28] think has kind of opened my eyes to the [17:30] line of thinking [17:31] that um [17:33] not just this new radical right here in [17:35] America and also what's called the new [17:37] right in Europe use, but this kind of [17:39] Eurasianist model that um [17:43] explains why Russia is siding with Iran, [17:45] why they're trying to create the BRICS [17:47] alliance as an anti-Atlantic, [17:50] anti-American project. Um [17:53] >> So, talk about the What are the [17:54] underlying ideas that [17:57] you know, that produce that? [17:58] >> This is a very This is unfortunately [18:00] It's like there's a lot to unpack and [18:02] then there's not much to say, if that [18:04] makes any sense. You know, when when you [18:05] run into something like that where [18:06] there's [18:07] There He's occupying another world of [18:09] thought and once you kind of like lay [18:11] out the ground rules, it doesn't really [18:12] say anything. But so, his concept of [18:14] geopolitics, first of all, we have to [18:16] understand because his What he means by [18:17] geopolitics is not what you probably [18:20] mean by that word. That word has a [18:22] couple of meanings in the common use. [18:24] There is a specialist use that he didn't [18:26] invent. I'm not accusing him of [18:27] inventing it, but there's a specialist [18:28] use of this word that most people don't [18:30] know. So, the two common uses of the [18:33] word geopolitics are kind of like what [18:35] we would call what he calls world [18:36] politics. So, we're now concerned with [18:38] nation against nation, large, you know, [18:40] the politics of, you know, large [18:42] regions. What's the What are the [18:44] concerns of the entire Middle East and [18:46] what that means for say China? That's a [18:48] geopolitical analysis, right? But that's [18:50] not what he means. And then secondly, [18:52] you might say, "Well, it's the politics [18:54] related to say where are the the [18:56] minerals? You know, where is the water? [18:58] Where are the ports? Where are, you [19:00] know, navigable waterways?" So, [19:02] geographical and geological politics. [19:05] And that's closer to what he means, but [19:07] it's still not what he means. And those [19:09] are the two common parlance uses of the [19:11] word geopolitics. What he means by [19:13] geopolitics is a belief that the type of [19:18] space that a country or a nation or a [19:21] people occupy is determinative of who [19:24] they are and what their destiny is. So, [19:27] in a sense, geography is destiny. So, [19:29] there are in the big picture in this [19:32] geopolitical school, two types of [19:34] powers, land powers and sea powers. [19:37] Russia, in the middle of the largest [19:39] land-based country in the world, is the [19:42] largest land power. America, um [19:47] along with Western Europe, pretty much [19:49] just the NATO concept, but also the [19:51] whole Mediterranean, are basically sea [19:53] powers because they all have access to [19:55] warm water ports, safe water ports, that [19:58] say Germany, to a degree, but Russia in [20:01] particular doesn't have great access to. [20:04] And that these are fundamentally in a [20:07] pitched conflict for world domination [20:10] and in control, and that because of [20:12] their nature, they have fundamentally [20:13] different values and the peoples that [20:15] they produce. And this seems impossible [20:18] to understand for a denizen of the 21st [20:21] century because we have airplanes. And [20:23] we have safe, well-made ships. But if [20:27] you go back about 300 years, you can [20:29] kind of get an idea of like the deep [20:31] mythology upon which this is based. [20:34] Land-based, landlocked places like [20:36] central Russia, [20:38] you probably, if you live there, you're [20:40] probably not going to go anywhere else [20:42] in your entire life. Transportation is [20:45] difficult. All shipping is done by train [20:47] or truck, but 300 years ago, there is no [20:49] train or truck, so you're talking about [20:51] like a wagon and trying to get across [20:53] the land. It's very difficult. But if [20:55] you're on a sea coast, like in Britain [20:57] or in Spain, you can just load up a boat [21:00] on the pier and just go sail, and you [21:02] can be trading pepper with China, and [21:03] you could be, you you harvesting [21:05] potatoes in South America. You have an [21:07] entirely different world. So, this has [21:09] created two different types of societies [21:11] with two different types of values. So, [21:13] this isn't totally crazy. It's just sort [21:15] of out of date. Um the landlocked idea, [21:20] the land powers, which he calls telluric [21:23] tellurocracies, [21:25] these are based in traditional values. [21:27] They have to stay stable year after year [21:30] after year. They are collectivist in [21:32] their nature and their organization and [21:33] they are ruled by a ruling ideology, [21:36] whereas the sea powers are based in [21:38] trade. So, you have fluid values. If [21:42] you're uh you know, a seafaring Jew and [21:44] you encounter seafaring Christians, you [21:46] got to figure out a way to get along to [21:47] trade. If you encounter Muslims, you got [21:49] to figure a way to trade. You got It [21:51] doesn't matter. Your values therefore [21:53] are much less rooted. As a matter of [21:54] fact, you start to hear stuff that [21:56] sounds like the old anti-Semitic tropes [21:57] that the sea people are ruthless, that [22:00] they're ruthless cosmopolitans who will [22:03] sell out their values in order to make a [22:04] dollar and to to to to to trade and make [22:07] money. And so, money becomes their god. [22:10] I mean, all the anti-Semitic tropes get [22:11] attached to the [22:13] um sea people, which he ends up [22:15] identifying with the Atlantic Ocean and [22:18] thus Atlantacism as a philosophy. So, [22:20] that's made up. [22:21] >> And Americans American I mean, there's [22:23] no [22:24] Now I'm getting it because if you just [22:27] Let me kind of paraphrase back some of [22:28] what I'm hearing. [22:30] If you see the world as a kind of you [22:32] know, in this in this black and white [22:35] this pitched battle between the [22:37] traditional land-based [22:40] uh [22:41] you know, collectivist societies versus [22:44] these ruthless seafaring more [22:46] entrepreneurial but [22:49] And if you translate that into ethics [22:51] today, [22:52] the ruthless seafarers, you know, like [22:55] Americans Who's more ruthless than [22:56] Americans? Americans you know, don't you [22:58] know, they don't even trace their [22:59] identities back more than a couple [23:01] centuries at most. [23:03] And they're also very liberal in their [23:04] in their in their social mores. [23:07] So it can turn into into also into a [23:10] kind of cultural moral struggle as well. [23:13] >> That's right. [23:13] >> Am I hearing you right? [23:14] >> You are hearing me exactly right. You [23:16] have picked up exactly what Dugin's [23:18] laying down. As I've articulated it, I [23:21] think I've done so faithfully. And now [23:23] the thing is there's a moral element [23:26] that gets thrown in. That and then then [23:28] there's a power element. And he says [23:29] explicitly that his world view of [23:31] geopolitics, as he calls it, it's a [23:33] science and a world view. It's not a way [23:35] of analysis. It's a world view. That it [23:38] has a moral component and a power [23:40] component, so a political component. [23:42] It is about power and it is for power, [23:45] he says. It's for which one of these two [23:47] types of societies controls the world. [23:50] Now the moral element is that the land [23:53] powers not just are they rooted in that [23:55] they have these long-standing [23:57] traditional values that don't change [23:59] much over time, but that they also are [24:01] located in the pivot points of world [24:04] history. They Russia in particular, he [24:07] has an entire entire not chapter but [24:10] part of his book that's about Russia's [24:12] unique location in the world as the [24:15] pivot point or the heartland of what [24:17] what's called the world island, which is [24:20] that thing. So it's Europe, Asia, and [24:22] Africa together is the world island. And [24:25] the theory is whoever controls the world [24:26] island controls the world. And so the [24:28] belief right now is that Russia is the [24:30] natural inheritor. It has the right [24:32] values because it is the people that [24:34] were on that land and developed them as [24:36] the heartland of the world island of the [24:38] world. And it's being crushed by the sea [24:42] powers that have colonized all along the [24:44] rim, whether they've [clears throat] [24:45] taken over and brought in their values [24:47] to the Mediterranean, whether they've [24:48] done through so through Europe and then [24:50] wasted all of Western Eurasia, whether [24:52] they've done so across India through the [24:55] British colonies and through South Asia, [24:57] through Southeast Asia, through the [24:59] French and and other colonies [25:01] that that basically the Atlantic peoples [25:04] have and he calls this the Anaconda [25:07] strategy have wrapped themselves around [25:09] the land people like a snake and are [25:11] squeezing it to death. And so the goal [25:13] is to kill the snake. The goal is to [25:16] destroy this Atlantic water-based [25:20] sea-based [25:22] value system as he sees it. So that [25:25] Russia can rise again as the center of [25:27] the world that it was always supposed to [25:29] be but it's never been able to achieve. [25:32] And so it reads strongly to me as like a [25:35] therapy for a humiliated people [25:38] more than anything else. It's like a [25:40] therapeutic ideology to say, you know, [25:44] Russia screwed up with the Soviet Union, [25:46] it collapsed, it was not able to join [25:47] the world capitalist, and it was [25:49] humiliated and it didn't want to join [25:51] the world capitalist order because of [25:52] its humiliation and anger. It got taken [25:54] over by kleptocrats and oligarchs and [25:56] all this wretched stuff and [25:59] it's good that way and we're better [26:01] anyway and and forget your world order, [26:03] we're going to we're going to break it. [26:05] And it feels very much like that's his [26:07] his his model. But it causes him to say [26:10] that the other peoples [26:13] who have these traditionalist values [26:14] against the secular rootless West should [26:18] unify. So he has an entire portion where [26:20] he talks very explicitly about how the [26:22] Russian Islamic alliance should form and [26:26] fight against the West in particular [26:28] with Iran. So a Russian-Iranian This [26:30] isn't written back in the 50s or the [26:32] 60s. This is written in the 90s. So [26:34] there should be a Russian [26:36] Iranian alliance meant to destroy [26:39] America. [26:40] Now this becomes very pertinent to the [26:42] propaganda we're seeing from people like [26:44] Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and so on [26:46] today. You see them supporting the [26:49] Iranian regime and opposing the [26:51] US-Israel alliance against the Iranian [26:54] regime, but this fits perfectly into [26:57] Dugin's broad strategy to to to unite [27:01] with the Islamic world as he calls it [27:03] and Iran in particular to destroy that [27:07] western snake that's crushing [27:09] the land powers in the world island, [27:12] which he thinks are destined because of [27:14] their massive land that he has. They are [27:16] destined to rule the world. They just [27:18] haven't been able to figure out how to [27:19] get there yet. [27:21] >> Okay. [27:22] This is I've got so many different [27:24] angles I want to explore here. [27:26] Because you know, the big question mark [27:29] up until the last couple minutes of what [27:30] you just said, [27:32] and I think it's becoming clear to me [27:33] now is what is the attraction [27:35] for [27:37] Americans. And it was why is someone [27:39] like Tucker Carlson who [27:42] born and raised in the United States of [27:43] America, why why is he even attracted to [27:45] it? Why Why are these ideas at all [27:47] attractive to Americans? Is is one [27:50] question on my mind. [27:52] And uh it [27:54] you know, the the alliance with the you [27:56] know, with these with Iran, the alliance [27:59] with these with the Islamic countries [28:01] seeing it as you know, that they're also [28:03] pushing back on these ruthless [28:05] uh libertine seafaring [28:09] peoples, you know, the America you know, [28:11] the American types [28:13] uh you know, seeing them as as fellow [28:15] travelers and pushing back against them. [28:18] I can see that. [28:20] But I I I want to [28:22] I want to bring it back to what we're [28:24] encountering now in America with [28:26] >> Well, I'll add one piece before we do [28:27] that because it's one piece of the [28:28] philosophy, with this Anaconda strategy [28:31] that he's describing. The Anaconda is [28:33] what ultimately squeezed and killed the [28:35] Soviet Union, [28:37] um which he actually argues what [28:39] whatever its forms that it takes, the [28:41] land ideocracies of of the of the [28:44] Eurasian continent are always correct. [28:46] So, the Soviet Union was actually good, [28:48] blah blah blah. But, then it's crushed [28:50] and who he credits with having created [28:53] the model that ends up this Anaconda [28:56] model, this globalization of the [29:00] Atlantic or the seafaring sea power [29:02] model is Henry Kissinger. So, we start [29:04] talking about Henry Kissinger, the [29:06] Council for Foreign Relations, the [29:08] Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg [29:10] Group, and saying that these are the [29:12] actual institutions that were brought up [29:14] to kind of finalize and globalize sea [29:18] power. So, now you can see why somebody [29:21] like Tucker Carlson, who's been opposed [29:23] to this, you know, Kissinger-esque [29:25] globalist program [29:28] would be seduced by this kind of [29:30] philosophy because Dugin's not [29:31] completely wrong that these so-called [29:33] mondialists, as he calls them and other [29:35] that comes from the French word for [29:36] monde or monde the French word monde, [29:38] which means world. So, the globalists or [29:41] the mondialists and they have this idea [29:43] that there's going to be one great big [29:44] happy world that everybody shares the [29:46] same fundamental values and everybody [29:48] has their cute little cultures, but [29:49] everybody's basically the same and that [29:51] they just have to project out there and [29:53] squeeze out the the people with the [29:56] wrong value set fundamental value sets [29:59] and then everybody will join the [30:01] capitalist world order, everybody will [30:02] become sea powers and so on and that [30:05] this was Kissinger's vision along with [30:07] these globalist [30:09] nonprofit entities that seem to be the [30:11] kind of string pullers of the world. So, [30:13] what he's done is he's identified [30:16] the globalist project with the sea power [30:19] project. He says that they are one and [30:21] the same. So, now you get these people [30:23] like Tucker Carlson, who are rejecting [30:26] the globalism and they're more [30:27] nationalist or nationist in their [30:29] orientation, nationalist usually, are [30:32] getting pulled into this Duginistic [30:34] thinking and then Dugin's providing a [30:36] road map for subversion of that project [30:40] in order to break it apart. But, what [30:42] he's also offering is the wrong [30:44] solution, which is [30:46] that the the the basically Russia [30:48] becomes the pivot point around which [30:50] history now revolves, that the entire [30:52] Eurasian continent is unified under a [30:55] rigid ideology that's going to look [30:56] something kind of like probably Chinese [31:00] communism. And but he doesn't say that. [31:03] But that's probably in practice what it [31:04] would look like. It might be Islamic [31:07] in nature or some weird mixture. But the [31:09] point is that we've got to get this [31:11] Atlantic power object out of the way [31:14] first. And so these traditionalist kind [31:17] of paleo-conservative [31:19] and paleo-libertarians [31:21] that we're seeing turn against Israel, [31:23] blame Jews for everything and so on, [31:26] would be seduced by this line of [31:28] thinking because it's criticizing the [31:29] right thing for some of the right [31:31] reasons while offering the wrong [31:33] solution set. [31:34] >> Right. So okay, let me again, let me [31:37] just paraphrase back to you, make sure I [31:38] got what you're saying. [31:40] So the [31:42] there's legitimate disdain [31:45] that we have for the globalist project, [31:48] for sure. And especially in the [31:51] post-COVID era [31:53] uh where we you know, there was a real [31:55] sense of this globalist apparatus that [31:58] was that was suppressing our freedoms [32:00] and suppressing our our traditional [32:02] identities, for sure. And the left-wing [32:06] wokeism and the trans culture and all of [32:09] that was also viewed by people the [32:11] people were trying to retreat to [32:13] tradition. They wanted to you know, to [32:15] push back against it. And you put all of [32:17] this together [32:18] and and it seems that these Duginite [32:20] ideas were able to capitalize on those [32:24] legitimate sentiments [32:26] and just and just run with them. [32:30] And and then you end up with people with [32:32] people saying, well, I want to reject [32:34] all of the globalism and who are and all [32:36] the ruthless cosmopolitanism, [32:38] you know, aka the Jews [32:41] and and it it it it all becomes one one [32:44] soup. And then when I am when I'm also [32:45] hearing is like echoes you know, when [32:47] Tucker Carlson [32:49] constantly uh [32:51] echoes this idea which is so it's so [32:54] it's so false, it's so easy to disprove. [32:57] And the only reason that the that the [33:00] that there's hostility from the Muslim [33:01] world towards the West is because we've [33:03] intervened in their affairs and because [33:05] we've squeezed them. Which if you're [33:08] Putin [33:10] and you say, "Hey, NATO promised not to [33:12] expand and now they keep expanding." You [33:14] can see where where [33:17] where the paranoia legitimately could [33:19] come from. NATO did expand beyond what [33:22] they said they should what they said [33:24] they would. [33:26] But it [33:27] conflating that with interventionism in [33:30] the Arab world and saying the only [33:31] reason that the Arabs hate us is because [33:34] we've we've meddled in their affairs. [33:36] And why have we meddled in their [33:37] affairs? It's all for Israel. So you can [33:39] see where the dominoes fall and this all [33:41] becomes a very attractive ideology. [33:44] Uh and you know, animating the animating [33:46] the woke right. But where it ends up is [33:49] being on the side of Putin and Iran [33:52] and hating America. [33:55] And [33:56] and the question is then [34:01] >> [clears throat] [34:01] >> you know, [34:03] for young Americans who are being pulled [34:04] in by this [34:07] is there a point at which they look at [34:08] themselves in the mirror and go, "Oh my [34:09] gosh, [34:10] where have I ended up?" I mean like [34:12] how does this how does this end up how [34:14] does this end up looking? [34:16] >> I mean, that's the hope is that we can [34:18] get these young Americans who've been [34:19] pulled into this to have that moment. [34:21] And what you said by the way about NATO, [34:23] this is actually again, this was written [34:24] in the '90s, but this is actually on the [34:26] list of anxieties about Russia and its [34:29] futures that Dugin is writing down. He's [34:31] talking about the expansion of the [34:34] Western alliance from Western Europe [34:36] through Central Europe, moving even in [34:38] toward Russia to foil from the West any [34:41] Eurasian continental ideas from [34:43] Vladivostok to Dublin as one Eurasian [34:46] continent is the vision, right? And so, [34:48] now you have this threat from the West, [34:50] and then you have the Islamic threat [34:52] that the Islamists are not going to [34:53] leave these kind of southern provinces [34:55] alone. They're going to try to move into [34:57] those, and then that you have the [34:58] Chinese are not going to leave their [35:00] eastern end alone. So, Russia has this [35:03] anxiety expressed here that it's going [35:05] to lose it's supposed to be the world [35:07] pivot and it's going to lose what it has [35:09] as its gigantic land mass as its primary [35:11] thing that it has to offer to the world [35:13] because Russia, the Eurasian continent [35:15] can only be [35:17] an autarky as he says. It can only [35:19] manage its own affairs internally if [35:21] Russia is an integral part of that [35:24] Eurasian program. So, that's his vision. [35:26] Now, what do you see though? And what [35:28] what can we tell our young friends here [35:30] that hopefully gets them to look in the [35:32] mirror and say, "My goodness, what am I [35:33] helping? What am I hurting?" As So, what [35:36] are the kind of two things in the world, [35:38] if I'm thinking about it, what are the [35:39] two things in the world that actually [35:40] articulate a fundamentally [35:43] different vision to this Duginistic [35:47] Russian, [35:48] you know, [35:51] I don't know. It's like a salve for [35:53] humiliation, for national humiliation [35:54] after the Soviet Union. Well, there it's [35:56] simple. It's It's the United States of [35:59] America under President Trump with his [36:01] president his Trump doctrine, which is [36:03] anti-globalist, [36:05] but also it is not this [36:08] this what he calls multipolar world [36:10] where we're just going to leave Eurasia [36:12] to come become its own separate [36:13] superpower. [36:15] But at the same time, it's also the [36:16] US-Israel alliance. The US-Israel [36:18] alliance answers the question of what [36:21] does this sea power alliance look like [36:24] where Western Europe is now faltering. [36:26] And all of a sudden, you see another sea [36:28] power that's injecting itself into the [36:31] exact heart of the so-called world [36:33] island, Israel, that is [36:35] thriving, successful, able to defend [36:37] itself, and is in fact defending itself [36:40] against this so-called traditionalist, [36:43] you know, occultist worldview that he [36:46] that that Dugin assigns also to the [36:47] Shia. And so, here you have a royal [36:51] threat to this entire ambition to make [36:54] Russia become the world pivot again, and [36:56] to build a Eurasian continent that's [36:58] unified under something like BRICS or [37:00] the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative or [37:02] whatever it happens to be. And that [37:03] threat is the dual threat of President [37:06] Trump's anti-globalist [37:09] but not multipolar doctrine, and the [37:13] alliance that facilitates making this [37:15] work that the United States has with [37:17] Israel. And so, those are the two things [37:18] we see attacked most vigorously. [37:20] President Trump and his ability to [37:22] execute his vision at this crucial [37:25] moment in history when we're trying to [37:26] stave off this woke, you know, attempted [37:28] revolution, and simultaneously the [37:31] alliance that the United States has with [37:33] Israel, which has at this point never [37:35] been more productive, never been more [37:37] likely to bring security and prosperity [37:40] and safety to the world than it is now [37:43] that is challenging Iran and taking out [37:45] terrorist cells on a scale that's never [37:47] been accomplished before. The war on [37:49] terror, as it was said, didn't really [37:51] accomplish most of its goals. It wasn't [37:53] able to go to basically the nerve [37:55] centers that made the the terrorists [37:58] work. And now you have this US-Israel [38:00] alliance that is actually dismantling [38:03] the terror [38:05] the the the the the the centerpieces of [38:06] the terror terror fortress or whatever, [38:08] Iran in particular as the chief sponsor [38:11] for the last 50 years. [38:13] So, this thing, [38:14] US [38:15] the Trump doctrine plus the US-Israel [38:17] alliance with the Trump Trump doctrine [38:19] is the scariest thing in the entire [38:20] universe to these multipolarists who are [38:23] under the Dugin doctrine. And so they [38:25] have their US propagandists who have [38:27] bought into this philosophy for whatever [38:29] set of reasons, money, the spell of [38:31] inevitability, the world's changing, [38:33] there's nothing we can do about it, [38:34] it'll be good for you if you help us, [38:35] but it'll be bad if you don't, you know, [38:37] that kind of thing. Um or, you know, [38:39] blackmail or whatever other untoward [38:42] possibilities. Or maybe they're just [38:43] ideologically committed, who knows? [38:45] Maybe Tucker's just an ideologue, who [38:47] knows? But Trump and the US Israel [38:50] alliance are the two things that scare [38:51] them most and they're the two things [38:52] that those people attack the most [38:54] viciously, the most consistently, and [38:56] hopefully our young people can realize, [38:58] holy crap, the propagandists that I've [39:01] been listening to for the last few years [39:02] that I came to trust through the COVID [39:04] years and and afterwards have been now [39:06] leading me into the exact opposite of [39:09] what needs to happen in order to protect [39:11] the world from uh basically a [39:12] Chinese-dominated [39:14] 21st century. [39:16] >> And And it's so interesting [39:17] [clears throat] that so much of this [39:18] crowd in the US especially is [39:21] gravitating towards Orthodox [39:23] Christianity and and pre-Vatican II [39:25] traditional, you know, Catholicism [39:28] because [39:29] as much as in the Bible, in the text of [39:32] the Bible, [39:34] the uh you know, [39:36] power flows from the individual. [39:39] Uh the individual's created in the image [39:41] of God. Uh even the appointment of a [39:43] king depends on the people desiring it [39:46] and and uh and and the consent of the [39:48] governed. Each individual owns their [39:50] plot of land granted to them by God. No [39:53] human being rules over us. God is the [39:55] liberator. He liberates us from [39:57] collectivism and from Egypt. Meaning the [40:00] the uh the majesty of the individual, [40:03] the sovereignty of the individual is [40:05] very much a biblical concept and it was [40:07] a biblical innovation in the ancient [40:08] world. [40:09] And Protestant and and and Catholicism [40:13] uh traditional Catholicism was much more [40:16] of a kind of power structure, but then [40:18] Protestantism the whole the whole [40:21] revolution of Protestantism was really [40:23] bringing the Bible back to the [40:24] individual after the printing press and [40:26] individuals could have their direct [40:28] relationship with salvation and they [40:30] don't need these intermediaries and [40:31] priests etc. [40:32] And and the whole ethos of America is is [40:35] built on that on that on that you know [40:37] that individuality [40:39] which is still very front and center [40:40] also in Jewish thinking. [40:42] And it makes me think that there's a [40:43] spiritual component here [40:46] that there's a there's a kind of common [40:48] world view even if it's not a common [40:50] theology between both Islam [40:53] atheist communism and this Duginism [40:56] which are all very much like your [40:59] individuality is subsumed in into what [41:02] into you know [41:04] the nation or the or or or the ideology [41:08] is more important than than the [41:10] individual the sovereignty of the [41:11] individual and they [41:13] and the sovereignty of the individual [41:15] can even seem quite liberating it can [41:16] seem it can seem quite you know quite [41:18] dangerous to these people. So it seems [41:20] to me that there's a spiritual [41:22] a component here. [41:24] >> There is there is. [41:25] >> very deep. [41:26] >> As a Jew you're going to get to laugh at [41:27] what I say in a moment but [41:30] so I'll start by saying like let's look [41:32] at this from the angle of kind of their [41:35] you know geopolitical as it's called [41:37] perspective this Duginist perspective. [41:40] Um [41:41] >> [snorts] [41:41] >> First of all he he names individualism [41:44] itself as one of the wrong values of the [41:48] sea power people. [41:49] >> Really? [41:50] >> Because you are able to be an [41:53] entrepreneur he names entrepreneur you [41:55] mentioned entrepreneurship earlier [41:57] without me prompting it entrepreneurship [41:59] is the completely wrong value. It is the [42:01] centerpiece wrong value. So the sea [42:03] people [42:04] >> he used it in hand for Dugin. [42:06] >> Wow. [42:06] >> So you get to be an entrepreneur you get [42:09] to do what you want there's going to be [42:10] protected property rights and then the [42:11] individual is the most he calls it he [42:14] says the individual is the most mobile [42:16] part of the group, therefore is the most [42:18] exalt exalted. So, individualism is in [42:21] fact the corrosive acid that breaks down [42:24] this [42:25] values-based land power mentality. Uh it [42:29] is the problem. Secularism and [42:31] individualism are the problems. Okay? [42:34] Now, so what do we have though in the [42:36] West? We actually do have a spiritual [42:38] crisis here. We have a deep spiritual [42:39] crisis. And this is how the Duginists [42:41] are able to capitalize on yet another [42:43] piece of what's happening. [42:45] >> [snorts] [42:45] >> I'm not one of these kind of strong I'm [42:49] I'm a weak replacement hypothesis [42:50] person. The replacement hypothesis is [42:52] that woke was a replacement religion [42:54] because the traditional religions fell [42:55] away. I believe that that is a weak [42:59] explanation, but not irrelevant, right? [43:01] So, I'm not Some people think that's the [43:02] whole story. We lost We lost Jesus, now [43:05] we're woke. And it's it's I don't think [43:08] that's true. But, we have been And I'm [43:10] going to use a fancy word here. We have [43:11] a very deeply deracinated population. [43:13] We've been pulled up from our roots. We [43:15] don't know what our spiritual roots are [43:17] the way that we used to. We don't know [43:19] what our national roots are especially [43:21] as Americans. Um we've been subjected to [43:23] now 50-plus years of what I'm referring [43:25] to just in general as critical America [43:27] theory. Critical theory started to [43:29] target American culture and American [43:31] values, whether it was through race, [43:33] whether it was through sexuality or sex, [43:34] whether it didn't matter, [43:36] >> Or you're just not knowing American [43:37] history. [43:38] >> Yeah, just trashing American history. [43:40] You're not allowed to just be proud of [43:41] being an American and be proud of our [43:43] history. You have to say, "Oh, well, you [43:45] know, we live on stolen land and all [43:46] that." And you just aren't allowed to [43:48] be, right? So, here we have people who [43:51] don't know how to feel proud of being [43:53] who they are as Americans. They don't [43:55] know their history very well. They don't [43:57] know their spiritual history. Now, I'm [43:58] not going to put Protestants on blast, [44:01] but there is a dist- a difference here [44:03] between what's called the high church [44:04] and the low church, right? So, the [44:05] Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church [44:07] are high church models. The church is a [44:09] big structure, it's a solid institution, [44:12] it's very organized, it actually has a a [44:15] core doctrine that goes beyond sola [44:18] scriptura. [44:19] >> And it has tradition. [44:20] >> And it has traditions, that's right. [44:21] Deep traditions going back 1,500 plus [44:23] years, depending on how we want to date [44:25] things. Okay? Now, Protestantism is low [44:28] church. Every man is a pastor. If you [44:30] can read the Bible, you have your direct [44:32] relationship, therefore every man is a [44:33] pastor, and it frequently feels that [44:36] way. Um churches are sometimes, you [44:39] know, in strip malls, they don't have [44:40] that art, that gravitas of a cathedral. [44:44] There is no like very strict robed [44:47] hierarchy where the guy in the black [44:49] robes answers to the guy in the purple [44:50] robes, answers to the guy in the red [44:52] robes, answers to the guy in the white [44:53] robe. They don't have this. And then [44:55] then again, the tradition [44:57] is really thin, right? The tradition is [45:00] very very thin, and then it's not just [45:02] because the Reformation dates back to [45:03] the 1500s. The tradition is very thin [45:06] because there's so many denominations [45:08] and people trying to actually grapple [45:10] with scripture and find out what's [45:11] theologically true, [45:13] and it just feels like a low church [45:16] instead of a high church. And this is a [45:18] very [45:20] big problem for deracinated people. [45:23] Young people who grow up without roots [45:25] look for roots. And so, the roots one of [45:28] the easiest ways to find roots, and this [45:30] is where you get to laugh as a Jew [45:32] talking about Christians, is that the [45:33] oldest religions that they know to [45:35] identify with are Catholicism and [45:38] Orthodoxy. [45:39] Right? And of course, there's, you know, [45:40] even Romans, the book of Romans talks [45:42] about a deeper root that they might turn [45:44] to and respect, but that seems to be a [45:46] bit of a problem for some of these [45:48] people. But they're looking they're [45:50] desperately looking for patriarchal [45:52] structure, tradition, and that sense of [45:55] an everything in their lives. Think [45:56] about your average young person who's [45:58] grown up under woke nonsense their [46:00] entire lives now. They don't have Like [46:02] you and I are old enough where we had a [46:04] foot in the not woke world that we grew [46:06] up and got our grounding in. Well, they [46:08] grew up everything's woke, everything's [46:10] sand, everything's water if you want to [46:12] use the Dugan language and churning [46:14] around and they have no solid ground. [46:16] They're looking to just connect to [46:18] something solid, old, unchanging, and [46:21] uncorrupted. Now, there's a huge irony [46:23] there as well when you get to church, [46:25] you know, structures, but they see older [46:28] equals less corruption. The tradition of [46:31] 1,500 or 2,000 years all the way back to [46:33] the the throne of Peter with no [46:36] aberration means they got as close to [46:38] the source in Jesus as you could [46:40] possibly be and still be Christian. And [46:42] it's a long uncorrupted tradition cuz [46:44] it's allegedly in their minds the same [46:46] tradition and they're craving that [46:48] rootedness. And along comes the Duganist [46:51] philosophy and sells this idea of the [46:54] West is rootless, it's a water-based [46:56] society, everything's up for grabs, [46:58] there's no values. [47:00] >> Who are these people? Who rejects [47:00] tradition? [47:01] >> It's entrepreneurial and individual, [47:03] it's not group you know, it's not [47:05] collective, no traditions can hold. It's [47:07] everything wrong with the world and this [47:09] is exactly the propaganda you see on RT, [47:12] the exact propaganda you see that the [47:14] Russian state media portrays with like, [47:17] you know, come to Russia commercials and [47:19] exactly the stuff that comes out of [47:21] Tucker Carlson's mouth, Candace Owens's [47:23] mouth, and on down the line with these [47:25] influencers. [47:27] >> Wow. [47:28] >> Taking advantage of rootless young [47:30] people to suck them into an ideology [47:33] that's actually destructive and against [47:34] their interests [47:36] uh because it satisfies a craving that [47:39] they have because what they're dealing [47:41] with is so [47:42] torn up. That's right, it's a totally [47:43] >> It's a legitimate craving and that's and [47:44] that's the thing that's that's where I [47:46] think this conversation has been so [47:48] helpful [47:49] uh and and I think really gets to the [47:51] bottom of a lot of this because we [47:53] a lot of the conversations about these [47:55] people are about the symptoms. [47:57] And I think that we've really touched on [47:58] some of the problems here. We've We've [48:00] touched on the real issues here. [48:03] Um you know, that [48:06] to sum it up in one bumper sticker [48:08] slogan, [48:09] this whole thing is [48:12] a is an extreme backlash [48:16] to the decades of the of the post-modern [48:21] moral relativism, breakdown of the [48:23] family, breakdown of tradition, beating [48:25] up on your American heritage, that whole [48:28] witches' brew that these young people [48:30] have been raised in, that this is what [48:33] the backlash looks like. [48:35] >> Mhm. [48:35] >> This is what it looks like, and it feeds [48:37] right in [48:38] to you know, to the reductionist version [48:41] of the existential need that they have [48:43] right now in this in this current moment [48:45] in time. Wow, I think we've really [48:47] gotten to the bottom of a lot of this. I [48:48] This This conversation's been even more [48:50] enlightening than I imagined. [48:51] >> Well, you you you could reach out at the [48:53] right time. And it's key to understand [48:54] that Russian Russian propaganda tends [48:56] not to create problems, but to exploit [48:58] existing problems. So, it read the [49:00] writing on the wall in this deracinated [49:03] post-modern West and served up an answer [49:06] that's absolute poison. And so, of [49:09] course, now the radical right or [49:12] whatever this, you know, Duginist they [49:13] have a least favorite hyphenated word [49:15] ever, and we get to find out the answer [49:17] is that hyphenated word that they hate, [49:20] which is Judeo-Christian. The [49:22] Judeo-Christian value set are the roots [49:24] that people are looking for, but I'm [49:25] going to add another hyphen because we [49:27] can make it even worse, which is the [49:28] Judeo-Christian American system. It's [49:30] like a trifecta of orienting your life [49:33] around humility [49:35] and around hard work, willingness to [49:38] endure in order to obtain a good result [49:41] of honoring the individual [49:43] in his capacity to bring light or value [49:47] into the world. And so, the the set of [49:50] values that kind of gets enshrined in [49:53] the American founding that is very [49:55] strongly Judeo-Christian but in a [49:57] uniquely American way. So, [49:58] Judeo-Christian American and even [50:00] bigger, you know, hyphenated monster [50:02] they won't like is actually the answer. [50:05] It's just allowing people to helping [50:06] people, young people in particular, to [50:08] understand what that means, why it's [50:10] important, why it is their actual [50:13] heritage as Americans or as Israelis [50:16] even have a you know, a strong touch of [50:19] this the Judeo part at least and [50:23] why this even alliance between America [50:25] and Israel is so fundamental not just [50:28] from a practical perspective but in this [50:30] philosophical way as well. Like when you [50:33] read John Winthrop writing in 1630 for [50:36] the Massachusetts Bay Colony in his [50:37] famous meditation on the shining city of [50:40] the hill on the hill where he's, you [50:41] know, quoting from Jesus to say the [50:43] shining city on the hill. But what does [50:44] he say is that there's hope and his [50:46] prayer for the Massachusetts Bay Colony [50:48] in Boston and America overall as a [50:51] colonial project is that it will be [50:54] faithful such that the Lord or the God [50:56] of Israel comes to dwell among us and [50:59] we'll know that it is true because a [51:01] small number of us will be able to [51:03] resist a large number of enemies and [51:05] we'll become a shining city and a light [51:08] to the rest of the world because we have [51:10] we've kept our end of the covenant and [51:13] therefore the the the God of Israel will [51:15] be pleased to dwell with us. So, this is [51:18] his his prayer for the United States in [51:20] 1630. So, our roots, this [51:21] Judeo-Christian American [51:24] fundamental orientation and teaching [51:26] people that this is valuable, that there [51:28] is tons of pride to be had in [51:31] subscribing to this, [51:33] um, to to getting behind this and to [51:35] seeing yourself in light of this without [51:37] having to have these gross apologies [51:39] about stolen land and whatever else. [51:41] I think this is actually the remedy and [51:43] it's the the the it's like the the [51:46] prophylaxis or the the antidote to the [51:48] seductions of things like Duginism or [51:50] wokeism or communism or or national [51:53] socialism. It's kind of these flailing [51:56] attempts to feel [51:58] something like dignity in who you are [52:01] that has been robbed from you because [52:03] your your roots have been cut out from [52:04] under you. So, I think there's even a [52:06] path to a solution here. [52:10] >> Well, from your lips to God's ears. [52:13] Dr. James Lindsay, we're going to have [52:15] to leave it there. This has been an [52:16] incredible conversation. I really I I [52:18] think it's one that a lot of our [52:20] listeners are going to want to listen to [52:22] more than once to make sure they picked [52:24] up on everything. And from what it [52:25] sounds like you're doing a lot of [52:27] reading. I could imagine that there's [52:28] going to be some writing coming out of [52:30] your pen on this topic. You know, really [52:34] getting to the bottom of of what is [52:36] going on here and [52:39] I just can't wait to see [52:41] and you know, to see and be a part of [52:42] further conversations [52:44] on this topic. Thank you so much for [52:46] doing this. [52:46] >> Yeah, thank you for reaching out today [52:48] is a perfect time. This is all fresh on [52:50] my mind. It's [52:52] really important. So, you couldn't have [52:54] done a better timing. [52:56] >> Thank you. [52:57] And thank you all for for joining us in [52:59] Shoulder to Shoulder. [53:01] Next week I I I sure hope that Pastor [53:03] Doug will be back with us. As you know, [53:04] he is he's traveling the country with [53:06] his family talking about Israel fighting [53:09] back against the against those who are [53:11] trying to demonize Christian Zionism and [53:14] Israel in general. So, Pastor Doug is [53:15] out there fighting the good fight. Thank [53:17] you for listening once again to Shoulder [53:19] to Shoulder. God bless.
